Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-17-2007, 05:16 PM   #1
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,403
MaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this board
Default Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
August 17, 2007 -- The former head of the NBA referees union and a league official for 26 years yesterday said rogue referee Tim Donaghy was able to slip through the cracks because refereeing has gotten worse and cited the final shot of Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls career as an example where a player's reputation prevented a proper call.

Mike Mathis, who retired in 2001, said Donaghy's guilty plea in federal court to betting on games he officiated and supplying inside information to mob affiliates, came as "a stick of dynamite" to the league. But Mathis said, "another stick of dynamite should be utilized (to) clean the entire officiating office and start from scratch."

Mathis, who had been snared in the NBA officials' airline ticket scandal in the late 1990's, has been loudly critical of NBA officiating. Mathis charged too many supervisors are unqualified and that referees are hired based on who, not what, they know.

Though angrily denouncing Donaghy's actions, Mathis referenced the pivotal shot in Game 6 of the 1998 Finals by Jordan against the Utah Jazz that gave the Bulls their sixth and final championship in the Jordan era. Many observers maintain Jordan committed an offensive foul, but it was not called because of Jordan's stature and reputation.

"Refereeing has gone downhill," said Mathis, who runs the Mathis Foundation that works with and supplies scholarships for foster kids in Cincinnati. "Remember when Jordan hit that winning shot? I'm going to give you exactly what the commentators said: 'What a great move by Michael.' Was that a great move or was that an offensive foul? There was no question it was a push-off. No buts about it. The only buts you can have is, 'Well, it was Michael Jordan.' That was a defining moment.

"The video tape would never lie," Mathis said. "Here's what could have happened. The referee makes the call and it's, 'No, no. How could he do that? It was Michael Jordan.' "

If what Mathis called "funny stuff" went on in games Donaghy worked, it likely went unnoticed because of the level officiating has hit.

"(We) accept unbelievable, mediocre and bad officiating," Mathis said. "The commentator says, 'He must have seen something we didn't.' No, he didn't. It's either he's guessing, he's incompetent or there's some funny stuff going on."

Donaghy admitted to federal officials that he often supplied inside information to gamblers, alerting them to what referees were working particular games. He said he was aware how some referees interacted with certain players.

"The first thing I went through was shock," Mathis said when he learned of Donaghy's transgressions. "Then I got angry. Then I said, 'What caused this?' I'm not talking about the gambling, I'm talking about the deterioration of the refereeing that has allowed this to go undetected. . . . If he was doing the funny stuff, I'm not saying he would have been caught but we might have had a chance, because all of a sudden he's standing out by calling all these calls."

Uh oh...

FORMER NBA REF BLASTS OFFICIATING
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:24 PM   #2
brwnman
.
 
brwnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,664
brwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputationbrwnman has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

yep, I thought it was well known...
brwnman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:27 PM   #3
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,403
MaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this board
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

I think it's arguable, but this is the first time I've heard a ref say something like this.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:30 PM   #4
thenextgreatbigman
Banned
 
thenextgreatbigman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,092
thenextgreatbigman has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

in before this turns into kobe vs jordan
thenextgreatbigman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:32 PM   #5
Hardtop Hero
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 247
Hardtop Hero has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

In my opinion, it depends on what angle you look at it from. When you look at it from the front angle, it looks like a push off. However, when you look at it from the side, it appears to be a light touch and that Russell fell down more because his momentum was heading one way and Jordan pulled back so quick that he kept going.

I think the "push off" is overstated. There was light contact, but not enough to call an offensive foul.
Hardtop Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:37 PM   #6
vert48
Can You?
 
vert48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,007
vert48 is considered somewhat coolvert48 is considered somewhat coolvert48 is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtop Hero
In my opinion, it depends on what angle you look at it from. When you look at it from the front angle, it looks like a push off. However, when you look at it from the side, it appears to be a light touch and that Russell fell down more because his momentum was heading one way and Jordan pulled back so quick that he kept going.

I think the "push off" is overstated. There was light contact, but not enough to call an offensive foul.
... and your favorite player is?
vert48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:38 PM   #7
LBJ 4 MVP
Sit yo ass down!
 
LBJ 4 MVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,652
LBJ 4 MVP is a pretty well-respected posterLBJ 4 MVP is a pretty well-respected posterLBJ 4 MVP is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

I think it was an offensive foul, but Jordan got away with it because he's Michael Jordan. Just like Bron and Wade get away with their travel's.
LBJ 4 MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:38 PM   #8
skillswithaz
I bust ghosts
 
skillswithaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,219
skillswithaz has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenextgreatbigman
in before this turns into kobe vs jordan
uh oh...umm

"Well if Kobe had taken a shot like that, they would've called him for an offensive foul and suspended him for game 7 because it was unnatural reaction."
skillswithaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:41 PM   #9
StroShow4
Certified ISHiot.
 
StroShow4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NBA247365.COM
Posts: 26,190
StroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableStroShow4 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

a push off foul isnt gonna get called in that situation, period.. they are going to let the players play because there would be alot bigger issue if they had called it.. everyone would be complaining about how the refs decided the game and not the players.
StroShow4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:46 PM   #10
Bigboi450
I airball my layups
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 65
Bigboi450 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

When a player's momentum is carrying them one way it only takes a light shove in the same direction to keep the player going that way. It looked as though Russell could have recovered both times '97 & '98 but Jordan not only gained the advantage of an extra second or so but he also gained a bit of leverage to change direction. Either way they were some of the greatest moments in sports history 'cause he made the shot both times.

Reggie got away with it too but he was so weak he had to use two hands.
Bigboi450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:56 PM   #11
Agent_Zero
Great college starter
 
Agent_Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,431
Agent_Zero is considered somewhat coolAgent_Zero is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

No idea how MJ's pushoff was like. Was he more aggressive or was it just normal? Any links?
Agent_Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 05:58 PM   #12
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,403
MaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this boardMaxFly is popular on this board
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_Zero
No idea how MJ's pushoff was like. Was he more aggressive or was it just normal? Any links?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XnPnJJJhKo
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 06:07 PM   #13
Agent_Zero
Great college starter
 
Agent_Zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,431
Agent_Zero is considered somewhat coolAgent_Zero is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly


That looks like a foul to me. I don't think the refs would have been fair in calling that back then. Now, maybe. Star treatment could be the answer as well.
Agent_Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 06:09 PM   #14
gts
Sons of Antartica
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 28,653
gts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginablegts is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by StroShow4
a push off foul isnt gonna get called in that situation, period.. they are going to let the players play because there would be alot bigger issue if they had called it.. everyone would be complaining about how the refs decided the game and not the players.
not disagreeing with you but that statement illustrates how bad the thinking is in the NBA now...
you say people would be upset because an official decided the end of a game correct? but in truth, it's the player who committed the foul that has actually decided the outcome of the game, don't blame the ref for doing whats right...
but the mentality has become don't let the refs define the outcome so they swallow their whistles... but in essence they are still defing the outcome of a game because they allow a team to a cheat the rules and get away with it, only this way the wrong team wins...

it will be fun to see what all this amounts to this coming season...will the star treatment be adjusted to be more fair? with the high profile rookies coming in it would be nice to see young players get a fair shake
gts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2007, 06:18 PM   #15
White Chocolate
5-time NBA All-Star
 
White Chocolate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,621
White Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Former NBA Ref says "Jordan's push off was an offensive foul..."

Looks like two fouls to me. The one where he steals the ball, as well as the shot.
White Chocolate is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy