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Old 01-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #1
tpols
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Default Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

We saw Dwight go from top three in 2011.. To top five ish in 2012..

Where does he rank this year?

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Chris paul
4. Melo
5. Tim duncan
6. Kobe
7. Harden
8. Wade
9. David Lee
10. Westbrook
11. Kyrie
12. Blake griffin
13. Tony parker
14. Chris bosh
15. Jrue holiday

All have legitimate cases over him Imo.. Then you have comparable performers like Al Jefferson, Al Horford, Brook Lopez, Pekovic, etc. Is there even a case that Dwight is a top ten elite player in the league anymore?

And I know he's hurt.. Just tying to see what his place is while recovering.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Barely top 15 to be honest, which has shocked me even with the injury because he hasn't been out of the top since the 2007-2008 season, imo, and he was already pushing top 5 even then.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Like top 15 which surprised me a lot seeing as he was athletic and strong. Don't know what happened to this guy is like he forgot to play defense.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

17 ppg and 12 rpg is still a good production.

Last edited by Nash : 01-12-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Hes at 6 to me, below CP3, Lebron, Harden, Melo and Durant(not in order)
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
17 ppg and 12 ppg is still a good production.

The last 3 years, he's gone from.

2011- 22.9 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.4 apg, 3.6 TO, 2.4 bpg, 1.4 spg, 59.3 FG%, 59.6 FT%, 37.6 mpg
2012- 20.6 ppg, 14.5 rpg, 1.9 apg, 3.2 TO, 2.1 bpg, 1.5 spg, 57.3 FG%, 49.1 FT%, 38.3 mpg
2013- 17.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.2 TO, 2.6 bpg, 1 spg, 56.9 FG%, 50.8 FT%, 36.2 mpg

That's a big statistical decline for a player from 25-27, but it's not about the stats, the difference between Dwight now and 2 years ago is bigger than 5 ppg, 2 rpg and better %. Dwight's skills have regressed each of these years after peaking in 2011, though the difference was bigger this year, he's been less active defensively after peaking in that area in 2011, he's seemed less motivated in general when motivation was never a question until 2012 and he's been noticeably less athletic this season.

He's just not the same player this year, regardless of numbers. Dwight was averaging 18/13/2/3, 61 FG%, 59 FT% in 2010 and a much bigger impact player than he is now with numbers that aren't far off from that. His impact has been nowhere close to what it was in Orlando, even 2012 when he clearly wasn't as motivated and there were the distractions(caused by Howard) It would help if he had a competent coach, but physically, he just hasn't been the same.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash
17 ppg and 12 ppg is still a good production.
17 ppg is misleading because he gets one third of his points from the line where teams have been intentionally fouling him and letting him get one point at a time to slow down any comeback. Dwight also has 1.8 apg to his 3.2 turnovers per game. He becomes a liability for the offense at times because of his lack of shooting ability and doesn't fit well with Nash on pick and rolls. His iso ability is very limited because of his lack of passing or vision in the post and his horrible FT percentage when he gets fouled.. He also lacks touch around the basket.

Dwight has been rebounding the ball well.. It's fallen off from his usual rebounding but still good. His anchoring of the defense has been non existent. When KG came to Boston he wasn't the primary offensive option but he assumed the role as defensive leader and vocally led the charge. Dwight has been seen disengaged and has hardly stepped up to the challenge. This should be on him as a great player just as much as it should be on the poor coaching.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Where is Josh Smith on your top 15 list?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Aside from the back injury aspect of it, I don't think that DH is more or less of a player than he was in Orlando. Last 2 seasons in Orlando he was scoring a few more points, but he was taking 13.4 shots/game in each of those seasons. This season he's getting 10.7 shots/game. Easy explanation for the drop off in points. Never played on a team with this much offensive firepower before. His rebounding numbers go down because he suddenly goes from a bottom half of the league rebounding team where he gobbles up all the boards, to a top 3 rebounding team where 3/4 of his teammates in the starting lineup are all above average rebounders. And not to mention he's actually still leading the league in rebounds and 4th in blocked shots.

Point being, he's in a different system, different players around him, and less opportunities in some areas. I don't think he's really changed or regressed that much as a player as the numbers only tell half the story. Perhaps he was a little overrated to begin with.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
Aside from the back injury aspect of it, I don't think that DH is more or less of a player than he was in Orlando. Last 2 seasons in Orlando he was scoring a few more points, but he was taking 13.4 shots/game in each of those seasons. This season he's getting 10.7 shots/game. Easy explanation for the drop off in points. Never played on a team with this much offensive firepower before. His rebounding numbers go down because he suddenly goes from a bottom half of the league rebounding team where he gobbles up all the boards, to a top 3 rebounding team where 3/4 of his teammates in the starting lineup are all above average rebounders. And not to mention he's actually still leading the league in rebounds and 4th in blocked shots.

Point being, he's in a different system, different players around him, and less opportunities in some areas. I don't think he's really changed or regressed that much as a player as the numbers only tell half the story. Perhaps he was a little overrated to begin with.
So you think he's a system player?

I partially agree, but Dwight had a much more noticeable bounce in his step on the magic.. Dude would be absolutely all over the place.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
So you think he's a system player?

I partially agree, but Dwight had a much more noticeable bounce in his step on the magic.. Dude would be absolutely all over the place.
Can't remember the game but Dwight was under the basket on defense and the ball was passed to a wide open player for left corner three.

He sprinted and exploded into the air getting a piece of the ball.

It was one of the most amazing displays of athleticism I've seen. For a guy his size to close out from that far away and elevate enough to get the ball well after the release.

It was incredible. Havn't seen anything remotely that athletic from him this year.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
So you think he's a system player?

I partially agree, but Dwight had a much more noticeable bounce in his step on the magic.. Dude would be absolutely all over the place.
That I can buy. But what i'm saying is that his regression from a numbers standpoint don't fully tell the story.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeastnani
Aside from the back injury aspect of it, I don't think that DH is more or less of a player than he was in Orlando. Last 2 seasons in Orlando he was scoring a few more points, but he was taking 13.4 shots/game in each of those seasons. This season he's getting 10.7 shots/game. Easy explanation for the drop off in points. Never played on a team with this much offensive firepower before.

In other words --- Never played on a team with Kobe before.

Because Howard has been on teams with firepower.

Howard's teams in 08, 09, 10 and so on, were loaded with shooters and were top-10 offensive teams.

Up until the last two seasons, Dwight didn't lead the Magic in FGA (lead by Hedo, Rashard, Jameer, and Carter).

Point being, he shouldn't feel completely alienated on an offensive team in which he doesn't take the most shots. I do think, however, the Lakers should be showcasing him more, running more plays for him that aren't post ups, and trying to get him back to his normal self. Will that happen next to chuckbe, who has a history of not trusting teammates, who knows. But it also depends on his own health as much as anything.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Rondo? J Smoove?
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where does Howard rank as a player this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandito
Like top 15 which surprised me a lot seeing as he was athletic and strong. Don't know what happened to this guy is like he forgot to play defense.

some of his points are from being intentionally fouled.
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