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Old 07-08-2008, 10:53 AM   #1
brodiebooksrock
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Default Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

What separates Hornacek and his successes, from the college stars like Alford/Redick who couldn't find a way for their sharp-shooting/high basketball I.Q. to translate into similar success?

The one type of college player I have difficulty guessing/predicting if they'll be a good pro, is the outside shooting/ball-handling/smart guard, yet lacks athleticism.

Why did guys like Hornacek, Mark Price, John Stockton work out, but the Alfords, Redicks, Hurleys, Bryce Drews not?
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

It all comes from the situation they're put in,if J.J. Redick never contributes in the NBA it's due to both of his coaches not giving him PT due to their team personnel.

Steve Alford was a 2nd Round Pick

Bobby Hurley never recovered mentally or physically from his car crash,and he lost his passion for the game after his college career ended.

Bryce Drew wasn't a 1st Round talent his stock was high due to his tournament play,thats why you have people claiming Stephen Curry as being a 1st Round Pick
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Interesting.

Although Hornacek was a 2nd Rd/46th pick, and Mark Price was a 2nd rounder as well.

I do acknowledge that PT vs personnel may have had something to do with it. But at the same time, I do believe that if it were meant to be for Redick, he would find a way for his game to not be denied.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

just because jj is white doesn't mean he's not dumb. the dude was just a chucker.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
It all comes from the situation they're put in,if J.J. Redick never contributes in the NBA it's due to both of his coaches not giving him PT due to their team personnel.

Steve Alford was a 2nd Round Pick

Bobby Hurley never recovered mentally or physically from his car crash,and he lost his passion for the game after his college career ended.

Bryce Drew wasn't a 1st Round talent his stock was high due to his tournament play,thats why you have people claiming Stephen Curry as being a 1st Round Pick

Curry is a better player with a broader skillset than Drew.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

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Originally Posted by allball
Curry is a better player with a broader skillset than Drew.
No the **** he isn't.

He's a 6'1 SG without the strength,quickness,or handles to play against better athletes in the NBA.

He's nothing more than a spot up shooter in the NBA like his father was but Curry could potentially be able to play some sort of defense if he has a good wingspan.

If you watched him against Kansas he couldn't create on anyone and was reduced to jacking up jumpers because he couldn't drive to the basket.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

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Originally Posted by mswank
just because jj is white doesn't mean he's not dumb. the dude was just a chucker.

"Redick was selected with the 11th pick in the 2006 NBA Draft by the Orlando Magic. Pre-draft scouting reports praised Redick's perimeter shooting and basketball intelligence, but questioned his defensive ability and speculated that he may not be tall or athletic enough to create his own shots in the NBA."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J.J._Redick

I don't see anywhere where I referred to J.J. being white, as to why his basketball IQ is high. It's not often a player with poor court-sense is team captain for 3 of his 4 years on one of the most celebrated ball programs in college history. I mean he was the floor general on a club with multiple NBA-bound players.

Here I am defending Redick, but at the same time, clearly his game hasn't been sound enough to break through like Hornacek did. So perhaps his court sense isn't as solid...
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

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Originally Posted by Interminator
He's a 6'1 SG without the strength,quickness,or handles to play against better athletes in the NBA.

He's nothing more than a spot up shooter in the NBA like his father was but ...

Stephen Curry's smooth stroke reminds me of how smooth and dominating Shawn Respert was in his senior year at Michigan State. Respert was an under-sized shooting guard as well. He arguably could create his own shot though. Now look at how successful his pro career was.

Basically what I'm saying is, I won't be surprised if Stephen Curry flops in the NBA.

ps: Dell was 6'5. He could post up smaller guards and throw up quality fall-away jump shots too.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Hornacek, Price, Stockton were all more than just scorers. They were also great distributors and had great court vision. Stockton and Hornie were also decent/good defenders.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

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Hornacek, Price, Stockton were all more than just scorers. They were also great distributors and had great court vision. Stockton and Hornie were also decent/good defenders.
Stockton is one of the greatest defenders to have ever played in the NBA.

He's far past decent/good.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Yeah, the decent was referring to Hornacek and the good to Stockton. Although you're right in saying I should have put great.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

(Side question, un-related to my original question): Did the scouts/clubs know their defense and court-vision was great upon draft time though?

It feels like, that on paper (Stockton/Hornacek/Nash/Price) weren't much different on paper than (Alford/Drew/Redick/Hurley).

But once they hit the league, the defense is definitely an asset that the Alford group did not express.

With the Stockton group becoming defensively strong, I guess you'd have to throw out the argument that they lacked athleticism as well.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Its kind of about luck for guys like this. They need to be put in a system where their strengths can be utilized. Hornacek had one of the greatest facilitators of all time and not to mention guys constantly collapsing on Malone. He had a lot of open looks bc of that. Not taking away from what he was. He was a pretty solid defender as well. But Reddick has been in a situation where he cant really get it going and hasnt benn given a chance. But hey, there must be a reason hes not playing right?
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

I'm not too sure, but given their relative draft positions, and their early years, I think it wasn't too apparent in the beggining (save probably for Stockton). Teams probably knew they were good passers but weren't too sure that it would translate in the pro leagues. They learned soon enough though.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Jeff Hornacek vs Steve Alford vs J.J Redick

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatetimthomas
Its kind of about luck for guys like this. They need to be put in a system where their strengths can be utilized. Hornacek had one of the greatest facilitators of all time and not to mention guys constantly collapsing on Malone. He had a lot of open looks bc of that. Not taking away from what he was. He was a pretty solid defender as well. But Reddick has been in a situation where he cant really get it going and hasnt benn given a chance. But hey, there must be a reason hes not playing right?

I agree with you here. Only thing I would say is that Hornacek was well on his way to being awesome before heading to Salt Lake. He was an all-star in Phoenix, first. Kevin Johnson as his back-court mate, and Tom Chambers as the "collapse" man.
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