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Old 07-07-2008, 03:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Ray Allen must be on the most luckiest son of a ***** alive.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

It's skill. Of course, we all don't know what a "perfect free throw" is, but free throws are not about luck, they're about execution. It might be weird to put it this way, but the question of free throw % should be how often the player "executes" the free throw well (style, bend your legs, extend your arm, that stuff). Also, seeing as free throw % is something that increases if you practice, it shouldn't be luck (at least a majority portion of skill), since you have control to a certain extent over whether or not your free thows go in.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

as for luck.... well, i can imagine that excuse being thrown out if it were in some old outdoor court. every playground has different tightness in the rim. if the rims are tightly attached to the backboard like brand new -- you better swish most of your sht or the ball is going to bounce off to afghanistan as if it just got struck by a swinging bat.

but for rims that are loose, especially the aging ones that have been dunked on so many times and jitters everytime something touches it, even bad shooters could appear to be semi-decent ones because the bounce is friendlier and the ball kinda gets stunned in the air a little as soon as it hits it, so it just drops in easier.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junny
It's skill. Of course, we all don't know what a "perfect free throw" is, but free throws are not about luck, they're about execution. It might be weird to put it this way, but the question of free throw % should be how often the player "executes" the free throw well (style, bend your legs, extend your arm, that stuff). Also, seeing as free throw % is something that increases if you practice, it shouldn't be luck (at least a majority portion of skill), since you have control to a certain extent over whether or not your free thows go in.
If it's skill - and not luck - then why, if one does everything in their power to make the free throw, does it occasionally not go in?
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangri
Ray Allen must be on the most luckiest son of a ***** alive.
When Ray Allen misses a free throw, is it safe to assume he was doing everything in his power to make the shot?
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

You need to look up Chaos Theory. That's kind of what you're talking about.

The reality is that the motion of shooting involves sending several hundred nerve signals all at the right time, and for whatever reason, be it a fleeting thoguht that runs through your head, or nerve feedback from your stomach that reaches your brain right in the middle of your process, sometimes this delicate and deliberate series of nerve signals is slightly off pattern, which results in a shot which is off.

What you are asking about is "What causes players to miss a shot they can almost always make?" The unfortunate answer is that there are far too many variables to tell you exactly which one it is, however, what we can tell you is that it is not luck. With a powerful enough computer you could predict with 100% accuracy the shot that would be taken... you'd just have to calculate for every insignifigant force that is at work, from wind resistance to muscle tension, or torsion force on your elbow, to the elasticity of the ball, to the resistance of the hoop, etc.

I cannot tell you exactly what causes any specific miss, but what I can tell you is that something causes it.
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:01 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

its skill mix in with the law of large numbers and the law of percentages if this thread continues ill explain shyt to you guys

and im one of the best shooters just jumpshot i know when i was a 6th grader i hit 47 freethrows in a row and could have 20 or more makes so effortlessly im not as good as i was in 6th grade because i dont shoot like that everyday but im still an 80%+ free throw shooter

shaqs form is all wrong dont look at him

lbj will never be a good FT shooter just on the fact that he never actual looks at the rim until he releases kids hell even adults the main part at hitting FTs is actually look at the rim the whole time great freethrows never look down unless for like 1 or 2 dribbles if you dont believe me look at a good FT shooter like Kobe or Ray Allen then look at a bad Free Throw shooter like LBJ and ull tell the big difference


see look how much i type and i said i didnt want to type but ill explain in real detail about laws of math+skill for free throws
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck
If it's skill - and not luck - then why, if one does everything in their power to make the free throw, does it occasionally not go in?

Error in the execution is how I see it. Some people commit more errors than others in executing their free throws. Practising should decrease the frequency of these errors occurring.
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:22 PM   #24
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanL
You need to look up Chaos Theory. That's kind of what you're talking about.

The reality is that the motion of shooting involves sending several hundred nerve signals all at the right time, and for whatever reason, be it a fleeting thoguht that runs through your head, or nerve feedback from your stomach that reaches your brain right in the middle of your process, sometimes this delicate and deliberate series of nerve signals is slightly off pattern, which results in a shot which is off.

What you are asking about is "What causes players to miss a shot they can almost always make?" The unfortunate answer is that there are far too many variables to tell you exactly which one it is, however, what we can tell you is that it is not luck. With a powerful enough computer you could predict with 100% accuracy the shot that would be taken... you'd just have to calculate for every insignifigant force that is at work, from wind resistance to muscle tension, or torsion force on your elbow, to the elasticity of the ball, to the resistance of the hoop, etc.

I cannot tell you exactly what causes any specific miss, but what I can tell you is that something causes it.

This.

If people were machines that could emulate each free throw to a perfect form, then you'd see guys who wouldn't miss free throws. Even then, you would see machines that break down every once in a while.

Trying to explain why people miss free throws would delve into deep science and dynamics that certainly wouldn't be attributed to luck.

tl;dr: people aren't perfect
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

no human is perfect.


its skill. no "luck" involved
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collie
This.

If people were machines that could emulate each free throw to a perfect form, then you'd see guys who wouldn't miss free throws. Even then, you would see machines that break down every once in a while.

Trying to explain why people miss free throws would delve into deep science and dynamics that certainly wouldn't be attributed to luck.

tl;dr: people aren't perfect

actually the only reason that a machine couldnt emulate a free throw everytime is going there is an outside force could gravity that will throw it off just a lil its going to be a very very very very very small amount but technically speaking

if gravity would pull down at a 9.8m/s2 without any wind resistance and there is always a very little wind resistance you could calculate the angle and it would go in 100% of the time
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretik32
Concentration. Mental toughness. Clutchness. Maybe tired muscles tightening up, but mostly it's a mental thing.

i agree

assuming that the mechanics/repetition/sufficient practice are a constant, it depends largely on the concentration/mental state at that very moment of the free throw

on a show (cant remember the title) they did a study on what fans can do to drop a persons free throw success

bottom line: the noise level of the crowd was more significant than the visual distraction that fans try

but these affect the concentration level of the shooter
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanL
You need to look up Chaos Theory. That's kind of what you're talking about.

The reality is that the motion of shooting involves sending several hundred nerve signals all at the right time, and for whatever reason, be it a fleeting thoguht that runs through your head, or nerve feedback from your stomach that reaches your brain right in the middle of your process, sometimes this delicate and deliberate series of nerve signals is slightly off pattern, which results in a shot which is off.

What you are asking about is "What causes players to miss a shot they can almost always make?" The unfortunate answer is that there are far too many variables to tell you exactly which one it is, however, what we can tell you is that it is not luck. With a powerful enough computer you could predict with 100% accuracy the shot that would be taken... you'd just have to calculate for every insignifigant force that is at work, from wind resistance to muscle tension, or torsion force on your elbow, to the elasticity of the ball, to the resistance of the hoop, etc.

I cannot tell you exactly what causes any specific miss, but what I can tell you is that something causes it.
Let's take a guy who shoots 95% from the line. Let's also assume that 100% of the time, he does everything within his power to make the shot. That means when he does everything within his power to make the shot, it will go in 19 times out of 20. How is this any different than if I have 20 marbles in a bag, 19 of which are blue and one of which is red and I am to draw a marble each time?

It's not any different. Yet in the latter example, you would be quick to say it's luck that you don't draw the red. Or is it the chaos theory that determines if you draw a blue or red marble?
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:16 PM   #29
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junny
Error in the execution is how I see it. Some people commit more errors than others in executing their free throws. Practising should decrease the frequency of these errors occurring.
I agree that practice can increase your percentage. But at any given time, you have a given percentage. If the error in execution is something he can't control (remember, I said assuming he does everything within his control), then he can't know when these errors are going to occur. So if such an error occurs, then it must be out of bad luck at the moment.
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shooting free throws - skill or luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truck
If a player does everything within his power to make a free throw, but occasionally misses, I can't figure out any reason other than that he was just unlucky in the event he misses one.

Is there some other reason - assuming he does everything within his power - why a player would miss a free throw?

Shooting free throws isn't so much skill or luck, but rather a mental thing...

You should already know that by now.
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