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Old 02-16-2008, 01:48 AM   #226
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by Niquesports
I want to make this clear Im a Laker fan but if any basketball fan looks at it its easy to see the 1987 Lakers are the all time best team ever.


Bulls fans
try again.

Lets say MJ goes crazy and gets 40 a game.
Magic matches that with his 24 and 12 assist thats 48 a game.

Pippin is a great Robin to Batman but Worthy was better.

Kerr was a great role player but Scott was a legit 3 scoring option.

Rodman was hell on the boards but AC Green would have gave him fits

Ron Harper was solid but Michael Cooper was just as effective and much more athletic

a mix of Rambis and Mychel Thompson would have closed up the lane for Jordan and Pippin and opend up the break for Magic .

Did I forget Jabbar as the X factor .

ENd result lakers in 6 games.

I think your name was meant to be "Zekesports", because that is some Isiah Thomas logic right there. This years Knicks look decent on paper, too....
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:54 PM   #227
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by Niquesports
Before we go crazy lets set things right. B Williams was an ok big man. As was BIg Bill Laimber lets not make him into a super star. This may start another argument but Id take Horace Grant over Rodman . Rodman was a big time rebounder and an overrated defender Grant at least gave you an offensive weapon was a desent defender and good enough rebounder.

i think rodman did a great job defending players like jordan when he was ounger and shaq when he was older. and how can you call a 2x dpoy overrated and say magic and worthy and scott were good defenders. i mean if it were going to be like that then we cant have a realistic conversation because i cant take you seriously. it would be like me saying that the lakers werent a great scoring team when we know that they were.
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Old 02-16-2008, 04:28 PM   #228
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by guy
They had a great top 3 and that was it and that was for half the dynasty. I said they were stacked just not really compared to other championship teams. And let me ask you: Do you think Brian Williams was as good as Bill Laimbeer? Did he have as much of an impact? Cause my answer would be not even close. And as far as your analogy goes, the baseball part is based on what actually happened, while your brian williams part is based on what ifs? and potential, not what actually happened.

dued, its like i said, i dont solely look at stats, williams def had talent but he played behind better players and to answer your question williams in my opinion had more talent but laimber had a better career. hell laimber would not start in front of shaq or mutombo either. im not saying that williams was great but the one season he got the chance to start he put up laimber like numbers.but you got to remember when he was in detroit he wasnt right mentally then he retired at 29. and then was killed by his brother.
remember, he played a big role in beating the sonics in that big upset in 94.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:18 PM   #229
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

DEFF the 96' BULLS without a doubt....ennyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know basketball
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:19 PM   #230
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

1972 Lakers, two hall of famers in the starting lineup (Chamberlin and West), 68 wins and a 33 game winning streak (a record that will never be broken in any sport).

Nuff said.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:53 PM   #231
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
dued, its like i said, i dont solely look at stats, williams def had talent but he played behind better players and to answer your question williams in my opinion had more talent but laimber had a better career. hell laimber would not start in front of shaq or mutombo either. im not saying that williams was great but the one season he got the chance to start he put up laimber like numbers.but you got to remember when he was in detroit he wasnt right mentally then he retired at 29. and then was killed by his brother.
remember, he played a big role in beating the sonics in that big upset in 94.

Who said anything about stats? And he never put up Laimbeer numbers. Laimbeer averaged a double-double for many years, and he did it for championship teams. Brian Williams' best statistical seasons, which is also when he was starting, happened on losing teams. And who cares about how much talent he had? I'm talking about what actually happened. Once again, your basing it on potential. Did he contribute to the 97 Bulls championship? Yea sure he did, but he wasnt one of their best players or close to it like you seem to imply. When talking about how great the Bulls dynasty was, Brian Williams should be one of the last guys anyone mentions.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:21 PM   #232
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

Quote:
1972 Lakers, two hall of famers in the starting lineup (Chamberlin and West), 68 wins and a 33 game winning streak (a record that will never be broken in any sport).

Nuff said.

69 wins, actually. The most impressive thing in this 33-win streak is that 18 of them were on the road. I don't know which of these 2 records is tougher. Possibly the latter.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:44 PM   #233
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by guy
Who said anything about stats? And he never put up Laimbeer numbers. Laimbeer averaged a double-double for many years, and he did it for championship teams. Brian Williams' best statistical seasons, which is also when he was starting, happened on losing teams. And who cares about how much talent he had? I'm talking about what actually happened. Once again, your basing it on potential. Did he contribute to the 97 Bulls championship? Yea sure he did, but he wasnt one of their best players or close to it like you seem to imply. When talking about how great the Bulls dynasty was, Brian Williams should be one of the last guys anyone mentions.

you just said "who said anything about stats" and then talk about laimbeers stats. , cuz thats what your compring the two on and not the situations each player had to play in.look at the whole body of work not just stats do you think that if he (williams) started his whole career he would average a double doubleor close to it? and also he was an upgrade from longley if i were to rate him on a 1 10 scale id give him a 7 laimbeer an 8.5. remember he didnt play the whole season with any team and came to the bulls rusty and went straight to the playoffs and had a crash course in the triangle.


when i compare team to team i go by if they were at full strength injury free and try to make things equalized as far as pace and the time each team played. the reason why i do this this way is because there are so many variables in sports that nothing is cut n dry. so when i compare teams i dont include if kareem had an ankle sprain or pippen had a back injury or if williams played 9 games and was rusty.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:52 PM   #234
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

I'm a Laker fan, but I agree that you can make an argument for any of the teams mentioned. It's hard to compare different generations, there are just so many different variables. Rule changes, no free agency vs free agency, cap vs no cap, styles of play, size of players in the league.

My favorite teams were the 80's Lakers because they were so much fun to watch. They had so much talent, charisma, were unselfish, may have had the best teamwork of any team since, and had in my opinion had the best point guard in NBA history. I'm not saying they were the best team ever, they are just my personal favorite.

Let me list a couple of things you need to keep in mind when discussing this.

1. Defensive rules (perimeter). In the 80's you could play a perimeter player with your hand on the ball handler with your arm completely extended and elbow locked. Later it changed you could have your forearm on the player with bent elbow at 90 degrees. Today it has changed to you can't touch him. Huge difference in defending perimeter players and slashers.

2. Defensive rules (inside play) In the 80's you could beat the crap out of each other and unless someone broke a bone or drew blood there was pretty much not going to be a foul. Hard fouls were allowed. Today, minimal contact will draw fouls and hard fouls are now flagrant, thus teams can no longer make players "pay" for slashing to the hole.

3. the three point line. First it wasn't there, then it was, then it was moved farther away. The three point shot completely changed the game, so all those teams who played before the 3 point line usually don't get talked about because it is assumed they would not have 3 point shooters.

4. in 1980 there were 23 teams, today there are 30 teams.

5. Free agency, without it you can build a dynasty and it stays together, without it is really difficult to keep it together once built.

6. Salary cap, makes it more difficult to build and keep a team together.

7. somewhere in the 90's traveling was allowed or they have a new unwritten rule on what traveling is, boy that really frustrates the heck out of me. How many times have you seen a guy take two steps back to get behind the 3pt line without dribbling? A guy takes two steps, then a 2 footed jump? or takes that hop to shoot then pump fakes? All traveling back in the day, but not today.

8. somewhere in the 90's carrying the ball was allowed and got pretty bad. It's been cleaned up a little bit as of two seasons ago, but I'd like to see that consistently get called.

These are just some of the things that make it so difficult to compare teams.

I don't even care who is considered the "best team ever" I like to look at is as the Lakers were they dynasty of the 80's, Bulls of the 90's, and the Spurs of the 00's They each have their own place in history.

Last edited by alexthegod : 02-16-2008 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:04 AM   #235
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
you just said "who said anything about stats" and then talk about laimbeers stats. , cuz thats what your compring the two on and not the situations each player had to play in.look at the whole body of work not just stats do you think that if he (williams) started his whole career he would average a double doubleor close to it? and also he was an upgrade from longley if i were to rate him on a 1 10 scale id give him a 7 laimbeer an 8.5. remember he didnt play the whole season with any team and came to the bulls rusty and went straight to the playoffs and had a crash course in the triangle.


when i compare team to team i go by if they were at full strength injury free and try to make things equalized as far as pace and the time each team played. the reason why i do this this way is because there are so many variables in sports that nothing is cut n dry. so when i compare teams i dont include if kareem had an ankle sprain or pippen had a back injury or if williams played 9 games and was rusty.

I mentioned stats cause you said Brian Williams' numbers as a starter would be close to Laimbeer's. Laimbeer had better stats on a much better team then any team Brian Williams started for. And like I said why even mention Brian Williams when its all based on potential? What did he do that was very notable with the Bulls? Why when talking about the greatness of the Bulls dynasty would you put a guy that played 15 mpg for 9 games in the same breath as guys like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc.?
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:04 AM   #236
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
i think rodman did a great job defending players like jordan when he was ounger and shaq when he was older. and how can you call a 2x dpoy overrated and say magic and worthy and scott were good defenders. i mean if it were going to be like that then we cant have a realistic conversation because i cant take you seriously. it would be like me saying that the lakers werent a great scoring team when we know that they were.


Let me explain when I say overrated. Rodman was a great defender but like most defenderds in the post he Big men still were able to score Rodman just made it difficult but I would say he and Pippin were the most versitale defenders I have ever seen.
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:57 PM   #237
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by guy
I mentioned stats cause you said Brian Williams' numbers as a starter would be close to Laimbeer's. Laimbeer had better stats on a much better team then any team Brian Williams started for. And like I said why even mention Brian Williams when its all based on potential? What did he do that was very notable with the Bulls? Why when talking about the greatness of the Bulls dynasty would you put a guy that played 15 mpg for 9 games in the same breath as guys like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Harper, etc.?


im not putting him in the same regard as a role of importance to the other said players. i feel he was an inprovement over the centers they did have which makes 97 better than 96. in my opinion you make it seem like he was some kind of scrub or something , and ill never compare him to laimbeer because he never got a chance to show what he could do and yet and still he was a solid bench playeer on those other teams he played for.and please answer this questions

1. is brian williams an improvement over longley wennington and parrish?
2. is it far fetched to say that the bulls would have been better if he was on that team for the whole season.
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:48 PM   #238
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls

1. is brian williams an improvement over longley wennington and parrish?
2. is it far fetched to say that the bulls would have been better if he was on that team for the whole season.

1. Not really. He was only 6'9, which isn't really an ideal size for a center in the NBA. Brian Williams wouldn't have been able to do anything, and he actually didn't, against guys like Mutombo and Zo, who they faced in the playoffs that year. I think he would be better suited as a backup PF to Rodman, cause he was always unreliable with his actions and any day it seemed like he would just blow up.

2. Its not far fetched, but its also not really based on much. In fact the last 9 games he was there, they went 6-3. I'm definitely not trying to say its cause of Williams, cause he wasn't an impact player, but I'm just saying, its not based on much.
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:04 PM   #239
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Default Re: The GREATEST TEAM OF ALL TIME

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Originally Posted by guy
1. Not really. He was only 6'9, which isn't really an ideal size for a center in the NBA. Brian Williams wouldn't have been able to do anything, and he actually didn't, against guys like Mutombo and Zo, who they faced in the playoffs that year. I think he would be better suited as a backup PF to Rodman, cause he was always unreliable with his actions and any day it seemed like he would just blow up.

2. Its not far fetched, but its also not really based on much. In fact the last 9 games he was there, they went 6-3. I'm definitely not trying to say its cause of Williams, cause he wasn't an impact player, but I'm just saying, its not based on much.

well lookong at his stats he was better than both and i dont think the bulls were trying to win a cuple of those games. also some sites have him listed at 6'11 260
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