Do people realize that playing from the post isn't only scoring but
passing too? To me, Kobe and Jordan while being great at scoring from the post weren't really threats as passers from the post. This dual ability is why Magic was better from the post than Jordan and the same reason why lebron is better than Kobe from a post position.
Re: Do people realize that playing from the post isn't only scoring but
Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
Jordan not a threat from the post in terms of passing? The second three-peat Bulls basically ran their entire offense through MJ in the post. You might want to rethink that statement.
OP didn't express the idea properly. Post play isn't only high post play where jordan and kobe are elite. It also means low post play.
Jordan is too small to consistently do cross court passes as height greatly improves vision in the post (see magic, see lebron). Jordan didn't consistently do the little mid-post handoffs magic played with worthy and kareem. Also jordan/kobe/lebron generally use the high post while magic was an exceptional high post and low post presence.
Furthermore jordan and kobe are too small to properly defend the post and SWITCH there, as they are too small, lebron and magic can do that very well.
From an offensive standpoint kobe and jordan are too small for the low post as it is a very congested area and good height is mandatory.Magic on the other hand can do it, lebron doesn't have the skill yet but his physique is enough for good results.
This is why you should stick to copy and paste jobs, because your actual posts are garbage
Show me Kobe punishing teams from the post with his passing like lebron
LeBron James, Low-Post Beast
In Game 4 of the 2012 NBA Finals, he finally unleashed it.
From the second quarter on, when the Heat erased the Thunder's early 17-point lead, James parked his butt in the post 14 times. Up until that point, the Thunder had gotten away with defending James with a combination of Thabo Sefolosha and James Harden, both of whom are much smaller and thinner than James. It worked in the first quarter because James wasn't being assertive. From the second quarter on, it didn't work, because James wouldn't let it work.
Here are the results of those 14 post-ups.
Points scored by LeBron James: 12.
Points scored by others on James kick-outs: 9.
Total points: 21.
Open shots missed by others: 2.
Free-throw percentage on plays where James was fouled: 50 percent (2 of 4).
Times when a post-up didn't result in an open shot: 1.
That one non-open shot? It was at the end of the third quarter, when a red-hot James forced a heat-check three-pointer with the shot clock about to expire. Otherwise, it was a brilliant display.
The great thing about James' approach was the way he mixed things up. When he was double-teamed, he accepted them and kicked out to open shooters at the perfect time. When he wasn't double-teamed, he remained patient and got the best shot he could.
This play from the second quarter is an example of the former. In the first screenshot, Derek Fisher is double-teaming James, and there appears to be an easy pass to Norris Cole for a three.
Magic Johnson, the one-time Lakers legend, used to make a living in the post by the end of his career. He'd use his burly frame to back down opponents, forcing them to pick their poison. If they double-teamed, Johnson would stay patient and use his incredible court vision to pick out open shooters. If they didn't, he would use his strength and developing post moves to score easily. Many have clamored for James to play more like Johnson, and in Game 4, he finally did.
But in many ways, James' feat is more impressive than Johnson's. The rules back in 1989 were far friendlier to post-up players than they are in 2012. Back in the day, if the defense wanted to double team, they had to actually double team. If they went halfway and tried to guard an area to cut off passing lanes, it was an illegal defense. Simply put, there were only a handful of defensive coverages that Johnson had to master to be effective in the post.
Nowadays, though, the rules aren't so strict. When the NBA allowed teams to play zone defense starting in 2002, what really ended up happening was that man-to-man defense fundamentally changed. Help defenders can now position themselves anywhere on the floor, whether their man is near them or not. The only restriction is they can't stay in the key guarding nobody for more than three seconds, but that rule is rarely enforced and doesn't come into play when double-teaming the post.
This makes it really difficult for post players to generate enough space to dominate. In his day, Johnson had to account for two types of defenses: double teams and single coverage. James, though, has to account for an unlimited amount of coverages in addition to those two. Is the wing player zoning up? Is he doing it to the middle? Is he coming to zone before James makes his move or after? Is a big man cheating to cut off the paint, or is he staying at home? Is he cheating before the move or is he waiting until James starts to drive? Is the zone that all four other defenders are playing on the opposite side a real zone, or is it disguised? There's just so much more information for James to process on a given post-up to make the right decision.
And yet, despite all this, James has managed to grow into the dominant post player we all hoped he would.
As the Thunder now know, you can't defend James with a small player anymore and hope to take him out of his comfort zones. He'll get close to the basket one way or another, and he'll find a way to beat any coverage you throw at him.
The Unique Ubiquity of LeBron James on the Cover of This Week’s Sports Illustrated (2013)
LeBron James’s ability to contribute at a high level at all five positions places him among the most versatile players the NBA has ever seen. This week’s SPORTS ILLUSTRATED, which features James on the cover, breaks down James’s stunning array of skills, position by position, with takes by Lee Jenkins, Chris Ballard, Ian Thomsen, Mark Jackson and Bill Walton. This is the 19th SI cover for James; the last time he appeared was when he was named the 2012 SI Sportsman of the Year.
Small Forward: Since every player requires a position, Heat coach Erik Spoelestra pencils in James at small forward. Often manned by the most versatile player on the floor, the three spot is where the 6′ 8″, 250-pound star seems to fit best. Jenkins says, “James performs all the job’s diverse duties: slashing inside for layups and stepping out for three-pointers, handling the ball and hitting the glass, accepting the toughest defensive assignments and smothering them.” (PAGE 32)
Point Guard: Warriors coach Mark Jackson, a former point guard for 17 years in the NBA, says James’s skills at the point are similar to Magic Johnson’s, if Johnson had possessed the ability to score 30 every day. “To me, he has the chance to be the leading scorer in the history of this game and one of the top five assists guys,” says Jackson. “That’s how special he is.” (PAGE 33) Jackson says that in addition to being an excellent passer, James uses his length and strength to disrupt opposing point guards on the defensive end. “Even if he had to play only point guard on both offense and defense, he’s my Number 1 pick at the position right now,” says Jackson. (PAGE 33)
Shooting Guard: When James entered the league, he struggled with his outside shooting—teams dared him to shoot threes as he often took off-balance shots. Since his days in Cleveland, Ballard finds that James has worked with a shooting coach to create a “calmer” shot, which has helped turn him into a better long-range shooter. Now, Spoelestra takes James off the ball for large chunks of time, which enables James to take more efficient spot-up jump shots.“LeBron James could be, would be and is an excellent shooting guard,” says Ballard. “He can drive, he can score and he can defend opposing twos.” (PAGE 34)
Power Forward: James recently developed a post-up game, in which he bangs and bruises like a power forward, writes Ian Thomsen. After working on post moves with Hakeem Olajuwon before last season, teams now fear James inside—a place where he is one dribble from the basket and one kick-out pass from finding a wide-open shooter. “When the time is right, James could yet become the league’s most challenging power forward, having both an unparalleled ability to pass out of the post combined with a touch that will stretch defenses out to the three-point line,” says Thomsen. “It’s shocking to be the best player in the world and continue to improve,” says Pacers coach Frank Vogel. (PAGE 36)
Re: Do people realize that playing from the post isn't only scoring but
kobe made it a point to play a facilitator from the post in his last healthy season before the injury. during that time, he was putting up crazy (for him) assist numbers in consecutive games. he was a huge threat playing from that role from the block.
so, yes, kobe is indeed a very good passer from the post. its just that he doesnt always have that mentality.