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Old 11-19-2007, 01:07 AM   #31
poeticism707
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
if you are going by this decade there is no question Shaq is number 1. 4 rings, 3 finals MVPs, scoring title, regular season mvp, 2nd in dpoy in 2000. Duncan this decade has 3 rings, 2 finals mvps, 2 regular season mvps and hasn't finished higher than 3rd in DPOY voting.

That is only because Duncan has a ring in '99, the year after Jordan retired, or the "last" decade. Either way, it still means 4 titles and 3 Finals Mvps for Duncan.

It a crying shame, by the way, that a defensive Bum like Shaq has finished as high as 2nd in DPOY voting, and Duncan doesn't have 7 DPOY trophies. That is a travesty that every true basketball fan shoould mourn.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:13 AM   #32
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
That is only because Duncan has a ring in '99, the year after Jordan retired, or the "last" decade. Either way, it still means 4 titles and 3 Finals Mvps for Duncan.

It a crying shame, by the way, that a defensive Bum like Shaq has finished as high as 2nd in DPOY voting, and Duncan doesn't have 7 DPOY trophies. That is a travesty that every true basketball fan shoould mourn.


I agree it is a crying shame Duncan has no DPOY trophies...it is just as bad though that Shaq didn't win the MVP in 2001 and 2005. I love both players 2 dominant big men who WIN...what could be better?
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:14 AM   #33
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
It takes a whole organization to win a ring. Duncan didn't win the ring by himself. Parker, Ginoboli, Finley, Robinson, Pop, down to the training staff, etc. I think its fallacious reasoning to consider the ring as an "individual achievement." He's #2 on my list because of this:

1. He has the ability to elevate his game to win ball games
2. He makes the players around him better.
3. He has raw talent.

All of this contribute to the team, which help them win games, but it does not mean he should take sole responsibility for winning the ring. Lebron does all of the above BETTER than Duncan in my opinion. That's why he's #1 on my list. The reason why he's not as successful in winning games and rings is because of the team, not him. Just because he does not have a ring does not mean he's any less of a player he is.

Let me ask you this then:

Do you think Lebron could have lead his team to 2 titles through the Shaq and Kobe Lakers?

Could he have beaten the Larry Brown coached Pistons in 2005, with Big Ben, Rasheed, Billups, Tayshaun, Rip, etc, only a year removed from EMBARRASING the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton Lakers in the finals 4-1?

That's 3 of Duncan's 4 titles that Lebron would, in a word, NEVER, win.

Yes, by the way, Lebron is much less of a player than Duncan, so much so that Lebron is not (again) in the same stratosphere as Duncan.

Your three major points, by the way, Duncan has proven 100x more than Lebron.

In truth, I think you are most probably a teenager, and did not start watching NBA basketball until 3-4 years ago. So there is no point in my overreacting. Maturity most often comes in time.

Last edited by poeticism707 : 11-19-2007 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:24 AM   #34
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Let me ask you this then:

Do you think Lebron could have lead his team to 2 titles through the Shaq and Kobe Lakers?

Could he have beaten the Larry Brown coached Pistons in 2005, with Big Ben, Rasheed, Billups, Tayshaun, Rip, etc, only a year removed from EMBARRASING the Shaq-Kobe-Malone-Payton Lakers in the finals 4-1?

That's 3 of Duncan's 4 titles that Lebron would, in a word, NEVER, win.

Yes, by the way, Lebron is much less of a player than Duncan, so much so that Lebron is not (again) in the same stratosphere as Duncan.

Your three major points, by the way, Duncan has proven 100x more than Lebron.

In truth, I think you are most probably a teenager, and did not start watching NBA basketball until 3-4 years ago. So there is no point in my overreacting. Maturity most often comes in time.

It's funny how you call me immature when you're the one who's dishing the insults out first. What can't handle an argument? Grow up. I'm challenging you to a debate and you have not once said anything remotely intelligent to make me agree with your stance.

Ok moving along, I will say if you take out the "ring" factor, a guy like Barkley is better than 90% of the ones that won, and I will go as far as say Malone is as good as Kareem.

If Lebron has a team as good as the Larry Brown's piston and the Spurs, he can easily take the title. Look at how much he's done on such a crappy team, while Duncan and Larry's Pistons nabbed all the best free agents in the league at that time.

He has the talent to win a title, he just doesn't have the team yet, that's why I'm calling him the best based on the individual skills alone.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

1 - Shaq
2 - Duncan
===============
3 - Kobe
4 - Iverson
===============
5 - Kidd
6 - KG
===============
7 - T-Mac
8 - Nash
9 - Dirk
10 - Lebron
===============

Honourable Mention - Big Ben / GP / Pierce / Carter / Ray...

When the decade is over (2010) then id expect Wade / Melo / Amare / Yao to be included in the top 10 for this decade...
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:27 AM   #36
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

allen iverson has been the most influential basketball player since michael jordan, till like 2002 2003 everybody wanted to be like iverson
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:55 AM   #37
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

If you put in KG, then I don't get why Webber is left off. Aside from longevity, KG and Webber are even, but Webber won more. Both were 25/10/5 guys, and the only guys in the league that were putting up those numbers.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:16 AM   #38
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
It's funny how you call me immature when you're the one who's dishing the insults out first. What can't handle an argument? Grow up. I'm challenging you to a debate and you have not once said anything remotely intelligent to make me agree with your stance.

Ok moving along, I will say if you take out the "ring" factor, a guy like Barkley is better than 90% of the ones that won, and I will go as far as say Malone is as good as Kareem.

If Lebron has a team as good as the Larry Brown's piston and the Spurs, he can easily take the title. Look at how much he's done on such a crappy team, while Duncan and Larry's Pistons nabbed all the best free agents in the league at that time.

He has the talent to win a title, he just doesn't have the team yet, that's why I'm calling him the best based on the individual skills alone.

Like I said, you are a child, and it shows in your post.

Duncan's Spurs have are historically the most untalented dynasty, without question. But your vague generalizations about the Spurs "nabbing" free agents and "individual skill alone" is so far from being true of the Spurs that again, you are a child, lacking in experience, or a common fan, lacking in knowledge or passion until the time comes to give uneducated opinions as though they are fact for others, then such an individual is impassioned. Being a true fan (and adult, for that matter) is looking beyond the matrix you live in, seeing beyond what you take for granted, beyond your own bias. But again, maturity most often comes in time (if at all).

Last edited by poeticism707 : 11-19-2007 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
People need to get over the fact a ring does not make the player "one of the best players" ever. Lebron has never won a ring, but he is easily better than the stars that have. Robert Horry has like what 7 rings? I agree with you winning a ring is important, but we shouldn't make it the be-all end-all factor in determining who's the best and who's not. There are way too many factors that go into making a player a star. Lebron is the best in my book because he runs a team like Stockton, shoots like Jordan, rebounds like a forward, and passes like a guard. No other player in NBA has this kind of game. The closest is Duncan and Kobe. No one else.

Yeah it does.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
Yeah it does.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. AI
5. KG
6. Kidd
7. T-Mac
8. Vince
9. LeBron
10. Wade

Not in that order.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:18 AM   #42
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Make It Rain
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. AI
5. KG
6. Kidd
7. T-Mac
8. Vince
9. LeBron
10. Wade

Not in that order.



I think Kobe is too high, and Lebron and Wade shouldn't be on the list at all currently, but still a great list. I'd have Webber and Dirk on the top ten in place of Lebron and Wade.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:19 AM   #43
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by steadyfast96
1. Shaq These five were deemed the best five for quite some time after Jordan
2. Duncan
3. Kobe
4. Iverson
5. KG


6. Lebron
7. Payton
8. Kidd
9. Nowitzki
10. Nash

Can't put Hill in there because of his injury forcing him to miss 3/4 years. Vince, TMac, probably around 12, 13.



perfect list
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:22 AM   #44
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
Name your top 10 since 2000.

1. Lebron James
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Kobe
5. Jason Kidd
6. Dirk Nowinski
7. Yao Ming
8. Steve Nash
9. Tracy Mcgrady
10.Gilbert Arenas

WOW. U LEFT OUT ALLEN IVERSON. REALLLY SUPRISED. LOL. HE WASSSSS 2001 MVP

YOU PUT GILBERT OVER D-WADE, MELO, ANDDDDD KEVIN GARNETT
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:31 AM   #45
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Dunker
1 - Shaq
2 - Duncan
===============
3 - Kobe
4 - Iverson
===============
5 - Kidd
6 - KG
===============
7 - T-Mac
8 - Nash
9 - Dirk
10 - Lebron
===============

Honourable Mention - Big Ben / GP / Pierce / Carter / Ray...

When the decade is over (2010) then id expect Wade / Melo / Amare / Yao to be included in the top 10 for this decade...


this post ends the thread (although my hatred of TMac would drop him to tenth or eleventh).

not only is it accurate, it separates the players perfectly into levels too.

well done
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