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Old 11-19-2007, 01:38 AM   #16
White Chocolate
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
Gary Payton's best seasons were from 1998-2003, (that's four seasons in the 2000's as the best or second best PG in the league)
I don't know what I was thinking with Hill.

Steve Nash is a two time MVP. Being DPOY of the Year and MVP are not hand-in-hand. Beg Ben's first time receiving the award, he wasn't an All-Star or All-NBA team member


Payton had some fine seasons, but top 10 is a bit questionable. Top 20 without a doubt, probably even top 15, but I wouldn't quite say top 10. As far as Ben, 4 DPOY awards is pretty damn impressive. From 2000-01 through 2003-04, Ben averaged 7.6 PPG/13.5 RPG/3.0 BPG/1.6 SPG. He was a defensive beast, and definitely earned his awards. His 4 DPOY awards to me is more amazing than Nash's 2 MVPs.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

I love this thread.

Era ranking is much better to me than all time rankings.
And who better the end an era than Jordan?
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Lebron
4. Wade
5. Kobe
6. AI
7. KG
8. Webber
9. Kidd
10. T-Mac

Nice list. Realistically, neither Lebron nor Wade should be on it. Their Body of work is to small a sample compared to these other players. Might as well put CP3 on the list.

It takes some serious honesty for Laker fan to objectively place Duncan ahead of Shaq at no. 1, where he belongs.

Cheers!
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:41 AM   #19
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
Payton had some fine seasons, but top 10 is a bit questionable. Top 20 without a doubt, probably even top 15, but I wouldn't quite say top 10. As far as Ben, 4 DPOY awards is pretty damn impressive. From 2000-01 through 2003-04, Ben averaged 7.6 PPG/13.5 RPG/3.0 BPG/1.6 SPG. He was a defensive beast, and definitely earned his awards. His 4 DPOY awards to me is more amazing than Nash's 2 MVPs.
If LeBron is top 10 (hell most have him in top 5) for being a three time All-Star ect, since MJ retired, the GP should be on the list for being a four time All-Star, multile All-D teams (something LBJ doesn't have).

I'm pretty sure Big Ben would trade in his 4 DPOYs for 2 MVPs.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:42 AM   #20
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi>mario
I love this thread.

Era ranking is much better to me than all time rankings.
And who better the end an era than Jordan?

Jordan is not the goat.

Bill Russell is the goat.

Therefore, at least Bill Russel is "better" than Jordan.

Conversely, Jordan is "worse" than Bill Russel.

If P, then Q.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Nice list. Realistically, neither Lebron nor Wade should be on it. Their Body of work is to small a sample compared to these other players. Might as well put CP3 on the list.

It takes some serious honesty for Laker fan to objectively place Duncan ahead of Shaq at no. 1, where he belongs.

Cheers!
I disagree. Lebron helped take his team to the finals, past the Pistons, and Wade helped his team to a ring (albiet with some controversy), so IMO, a 3rd year player like Paul doesn't stand up to what Wade and Bron have accomplished so far in 4+ seasons (yet).
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:46 AM   #22
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
It takes some serious honesty for Laker fan to objectively place Duncan ahead of Shaq at no. 1, where he belongs.

Cheers!

Showtime is not a Laker fan
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by steadyfast96
Showtime is not a Laker fan

It todays NBA, an the muiltitude of brainwashed fans it produces, it takes a true and knowledgeable fan nonetheless to rank Duncan ahead of Shaq, which both of them deserve.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
If Lebron's resume were Duncan's right now, you'd be stating that Lebron is inarguably the goat. But since it is Duncan with the goat like achievements, championships are not the "be all end-all."

This reasoning is so immature at best and harmful at worst, to yourself, the players, the game, and any poor fool who is taken in by such faulty reasoning.

I think it has a logical basis to it. Too many great players have been overlooked because they have not won a ring. Barkley and Stockton come immediately to mind. Both are some of the greatest players to ever play the game but they always take a back seat to the winners. Winning a ring is not as important as winning games. Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have a lot of rings, but they're not winners. Let's pretend we have a player who averages 40 pt/12 R/7 A night in and night out. He wins games in the 60 range, but falters in the finals. This doesn't mean he's a worse player than the other star, this only means his team is not up to par. And guess what, basketball is a team sport, so a ring should not be consider an "individual achievement" but rather a team accomplishment. No one player ever wins a ring by himself, so we shouldn't talk like this is the case. We should assess star players individually to see who's the best and not how many rings he has on his finger. Lebron has proven he can win games, and in the end, this is all that matters. The problem is not him, the problem is the team he's with, so this should not deter him from being one of the best just because he does not have a ring on his finger.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
I disagree. Lebron helped take his team to the finals, past the Pistons, and Wade helped his team to a ring (albiet with some controversy), so IMO, a 3rd year player like Paul doesn't stand up to what Wade and Bron have accomplished so far in 4+ seasons (yet).

D-Whistle? Contraversy?

He and David stern were only giving manilla enverlopes to the Finals referees before the Finals...
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
Jordan is not the goat.

Bill Russell is the goat.

Therefore, at least Bill Russel is "better" than Jordan.

Conversely, Jordan is "worse" than Bill Russel.

If P, then Q.

Jordan ending the recent era feels just fine to me.

Before that you can put everyone into the Russel era if you want to, it wouldn't bother me at all.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:54 AM   #27
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

If you guys remember putting Hill on the list,please DO not forget Hardway.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRAMBO24
I think it has a logical basis to it. Too many great players have been overlooked because they have not won a ring. Barkley and Stockton come immediately to mind. Both are some of the greatest players to ever play the game but they always take a back seat to the winners. Winning a ring is not as important as winning games. Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have a lot of rings, but they're not winners. Let's pretend we have a player who averages 40 pt/12 R/7 A night in and night out. He wins games in the 60 range, but falters in the finals. This doesn't mean he's a worse player than the other star, this only means his team is not up to par. And guess what, basketball is a team sport, so a ring should not be consider an "individual achievement" but rather a team accomplishment. No one player ever wins a ring by himself, so we shouldn't talk like this is the case. We should assess star players individually to see who's the best and not how many rings he has on his finger. Lebron has proven he can win games, and in the end, this is all that matters. The problem is not him, the problem is the team he's with, so this should not deter him from being one of the best just because he does not have a ring on his finger.

"Winning a ring is not as important as winning games." -yourself

THE SPURS HAVE WINNING PERCENTAGE OF ANY TEAM IN THE FOUR MAJOR SPORTS SINCE DUNCAN ARRIVED TEN YEARS AGO. Since 2003,
Duncan is the only player from his first title team in '99. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

That Duncan wins. He is inarguably top five all time, and until Lebron accomplishes more than everyone else in the league (including Shaq), he is not in the same stratosphere as Duncan.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

if you are going by this decade there is no question Shaq is number 1. 4 rings, 3 finals MVPs, scoring title, regular season mvp, 2nd in dpoy in 2000. Duncan this decade has 3 rings, 2 finals mvps, 2 regular season mvps and hasn't finished higher than 3rd in DPOY voting.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: Top 10 Players AFTER the Jordan era

Quote:
Originally Posted by poeticism707
"Winning a ring is not as important as winning games." -yourself

THE SPURS HAVE WINNING PERCENTAGE OF ANY TEAM IN THE FOUR MAJOR SPORTS SINCE DUNCAN ARRIVED TEN YEARS AGO. Since 2003,
Duncan is the only player from his first title team in '99. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

That Duncan wins. He is inarguably top five all time, and until Lebron accomplishes more than everyone else in the league (including Shaq), he is not in the same stratosphere as Duncan.


It takes a whole organization to win a ring. Duncan didn't win the ring by himself. Parker, Ginoboli, Finley, Robinson, Pop, down to the training staff, etc. I think its fallacious reasoning to consider the ring as an "individual achievement." He's #2 on my list because of this:

1. He has the ability to elevate his game to win ball games
2. He makes the players around him better.
3. He has raw talent.

All of this contribute to the team, which help them win games, but it does not mean he should take sole responsibility for winning the ring. Lebron does all of the above BETTER than Duncan in my opinion. That's why he's #1 on my list. The reason why he's not as successful in winning games and rings is because of the team, not him. Just because he does not have a ring does not mean he's any less of a player he is.
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