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Old 11-15-2007, 10:14 AM   #16
Loki
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by guy
So if the Bulls and Jordan were looking for a trade back then, similar to how the Lakers and Kobe are now, do you think any players of that era would've been off limits? Do you think any good team or young team would've gutted their whole roster for MJ? For example, would the Magic have offered Shaq, who was considered already the most dominant force in the NBA and in his mid-20s, for Jordan? Would the Pistons have offered Grant Hill, who was considered the next great perimeter player and in his early 20s, for Jordan? Would the Jazz have traded Karl Malone, and forget the chemistry he had with Jazz specifically Stockton, for Jordan? Would the Sixers have traded Allen Iverson, Jerry Stackhouse, +filler for Jordan?

The only player I can't see a team offering for Jordan is Shaq, and that's only if you're talking about '96-'98 Jordan.
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

I don't remember the exact details, but there was a draft day deal that could have had Drexler, Jordan and Hakeem on the same team. It was something like that, I read it in an article last year. Ok, I found the article, here it is:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....ulls-headlines
Quote:
Draft deal stranger than '1984'
Olajuwon says he, Jordan, Drexler could have been Rockets teammates


It's one of the great urban legends in NBA draft annals, a scenario that would have changed league history and maybe the entire Michael Jordan legend -- possibly made it even greater. And subsequent NBA history might be defined more by Houston than Boston, Los Angeles or Chicago.

Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon playing together for their entire careers. How many championships would that have meant?

There are no precise parallels this year, though there are similarities with the franchise center, Greg Oden, the consensus No. 1 pick in Thursday's NBA draft. The best talent might be swingman Kevin Durant, the likely No. 2 pick.

In 1984, the consensus No. 1 pick was Olajuwon, the center on Houston's Phi Slamma Jammers. Jordan was the college player of the year at North Carolina, so he was hardly a secret. But no one imagined the heights to which he would rise.

Even then-Bulls general manager Rod Thorn warned on draft day that Jordan wasn't the kind of player you could rely upon to turn around a franchise. And it was no secret the Bulls were eager to get Olajuwon.

In fact, their manipulation was part of the reason the NBA went to a draft lottery the next year.

Back then, the teams with the poorest records in each conference flipped a coin for the No. 1 draft pick. The Bulls tried desperately to get into that flip, hoping they were due. They were in the coin flip in 1979 and lost: The Lakers got to take Magic Johnson and the Bulls got David Greenwood.

How would a reversal there have changed basketball history? The Bulls had Artis Gilmore, and Johnson had expressed an interest in playing with either Gilmore or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

In 1984, the Bulls traded their best player, Reggie Theus, for backup big man Steve Johnson and second-round picks and went on to lose 27 of their last 33 after the trade (they were seven below .500 at the time) to finish 27-55.

The Rockets were every bit as creative. They had Ralph Sampson, No. 1 from the previous draft, but played him sparingly down the stretch and lost nine of their last 10.

The Bulls missed getting the worst record in the East by one game, and Houston got it in the West. With the apparent dumping of games to get a franchise center too obvious, the NBA changed the draft rules.

But now it got interesting.

Houston had the No. 1 pick and Portland was No. 2. The Pacers had the second pick, but had traded the rights in 1981 for center Tom Owens because they'd lost James Edwards as a free agent and needed a center. Portland, meanwhile, was loaded at the shooting-guard position with future Hall of Famer Clyde Drexler and All-Star Jim Paxson.

The Blazers were looking to recreate their 1977 championship team with a Bill Walton-type center who could pass.

"Jack (Ramsay, the Trail Blazers' coach) took a lot of heat for that," recalled Bill Fitch, then Houston's coach. "But Sam Bowie ... if you asked (23) teams then, if anyone looked at his need, it was a Sam Bowie. Had Sam stayed healthy, he was a can't-miss. I had Sam later in New Jersey and he was as good a passing center as there was. Had Bowie stayed healthy, Jack had a chance to win championships with that team. He got hurt, Jordan came on.

"What Jack did was right," Fitch insisted. "All of us at the time would have done the same thing."

Thorn said then he wanted Olajuwon, and Jordan was his next choice. Some claimed it was Bowie, which Thorn denies.

But there was the other thing that has been long rumored. It has been something of an NBA fable, and Olajuwon even mentioned it in his autobiography, "Living the Dream."

Olajuwon claimed the Rockets had an offer from Portland -- which wanted the more talented high-post center (Bowie) -- to trade Sampson for the No. 2 draft pick and the chance to draft Jordan. It was the birth of the so-called "Twin Towers" era, and the Rockets did get to the NBA Finals in 1986, losing in six games to Boston. But it was clear Olajuwon was the superior low-post center and he was the sure keeper.

Olajuwon wrote that the deal would have been Sampson for the No. 2 pick and Drexler.

"From 1984 until today (1996), the Rockets could have had a lineup with me, Clyde Drexler and Michael Jordan, developing together, playing together, winning together. But the Rockets never made the move."

Ramsay said he never heard of such discussions and that general manager Stu Inman handled trade talks. Inman died recently. Fitch, who lives in Houston and New Mexico and remains one of the great coaches in league history, insists the Rockets were committed to keeping Olajuwon and Sampson.

"We had the makings of a good team, but the drug laws wiped us out," he said. "We lost Lewis Lloyd and Mitchell Wiggins (in 1986-87) and John Lucas (for the 1986 playoffs). Sampson became a one-legged horse (from injury) and we traded him away. If we could have kept that same group, we'd have had something."

Fitch acknowledges Houston had some thoughts about Jordan.

"I had played against Dean Smith in the service -- we were friends," Fitch said. "He called me and said, 'I'm telling you, Bill, this guy is going to be the greatest.' Dean was that high on him. But we did not have the hindsight to know."

It's an airy dream to contemplate, Jordan and Olajuwon.

sasmith@tribune.com


Copyright 2007, The Chicago Tribune
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Old 11-15-2007, 10:37 AM   #18
dejordan
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

i think pretty much the day after he scored 63 in boston all possibility of trading him before his first retirement went out the window. the bulls would have expected a team to absolutely gut itself for their wunderkind, and there were would have to be major stars in the making of the nique / chuck / clyde variety involved. he was marketable on an unprecedented level and everybody learned in that playoff series that his talent level was also beyond the upper-limits we had seen for a guard.

if memory serves, his contract with chicago ran out after the 96 season, and there was talk of him going to new york or miami (people thought he would want to play for riles, but he shot those rumors down). trading him after that would be almost impossible because he was bringing in $25MM a year and winning mvps and finals mvps.

the only team i think that might have been able to make a legitament move for jordan was los angeles. they could have given baby bryant and jones (would have had to cut and resign them both to massive contracts though) and maybe campbell. no way do they give up a young shaq for an old jordan, and no way does jordan go to a team that strips itself of talent and can't win. and just for the record, the wrath and terror mj would have rained down on the league, particularly the bulls, if he'd been traded would have been horrifying. i'm talking about embarrassing teams like boston is doing right now every night. especially with a spry oneal eager to win and dominate at his side.

can you imagine jordan with shaq? good lord, if you start the ball in jordan's hands in the high post on the right side of the lane, he's going to kill you all day with the fadeaway and up and under moves unless you send the double. and if you send the double he'll kick it out and the ball will rotate, and oneal can post litearlly at the rim when the defense shifts to cover mike. that's two or three passes for a dunk. your other option is to start the ball in oneal in the low post on the left side, wait for the d to collapse. he kicks it out and it swings to mj who is either open on the the right wing or in a one on one with a lot of room (picture kobe isoing when he played with oneal). they'd score 30 points apiece on disgustingly great field goal percentage even though mike was past his prime and shaq wasn't quite at his yet. then fisher, fox, and horry / green gun you to death when you collapse everyone back into the lane in a desperate attempt to stop those two monsters. but picturing jordan in a lakers uni kinda makes me sick.

i heard rumors that a jones + campbell for pippen almost happened between the 97 and 98 seasons. i think jordan + phil blocked it, but that might have been a rumor.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by guy
Now this thread is for older posters that watched the NBA and Michael Jordan, especially in the late 90s.

All the Kobe trade talk has got me thinking. He's considered the best player in the game, yet there are certain players like Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Kevin Garnett, Dwayne Wade, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitski, Kevin Durant that teams wouldn't trade for Kobe.

Michael Jordan was so great and profitable, that even when he was 33-35 in the second three peat, its hard to think that any team back then wouldn't have offered there best player for him, no matter how good there team was already or how young there best player was.

So if the Bulls and Jordan were looking for a trade back then, similar to how the Lakers and Kobe are now, do you think any players of that era would've been off limits? Do you think any good team or young team would've gutted their whole roster for MJ? For example, would the Magic have offered Shaq, who was considered already the most dominant force in the NBA and in his mid-20s, for Jordan? Would the Pistons have offered Grant Hill, who was considered the next great perimeter player and in his early 20s, for Jordan? Would the Jazz have traded Karl Malone, and forget the chemistry he had with Jazz specifically Stockton, for Jordan? Would the Sixers have traded Allen Iverson, Jerry Stackhouse, +filler for Jordan?

This is by no means a Kobe vs. Jordan thread. Its more like a thread comparing the worth of the best player today to the best player in the 90s.

I don't know that Kobe is the best player of today, but at any rate I think Jordan was basically untradeable his whole career minus the Wizards stint)
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by SomeBunghole
Oh, and since someone will bring up MJ before he was signed to the obscene contract, let's discuss the other extreme.

Before he signed the 30 million contract in 1996, MJ was ridiculously undervalued. In the last year of his old contract, he made 3.8 million a year. Compare this to Ewing, who was getting 18.7 million, or Shawn Bradley(!!!) who was making 4.3 million.

During that time, Jordan was basically untradeble, because there was no way for any team to put together a package of players(or send a single player) worth 3.8 million that would be even remotely fair to the Bulls. Let us take a stroll down memory lane and look at some of the players who made between 3.0 and 4.0 million that year:

Dee Brown
Billy Owens
Kenny Anderson
Kendal Gill
Tyrone Hill
Rik Smits
Benoit Benjamin
Christian Laettner
Rony Seikali
Stanley Roberts
Loy Vaught
Wayman Tisdale
Harvey Grant
Frank Brickowski
and last, but not least, everyone's favourite....Chris Dudley

The only potential trade that was even remotely outside the realm of science fiction would've been for Karl Malone. He made 3.6 million that year. And even that is very unrealistic.

Great post. I never really thought of this. I wasn't really asking what kind of trades were possible. I was more asking what people thought other teams would be willing to offer if a trade was possible? What players would be off limits?
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by Loki
The only player I can't see a team offering for Jordan is Shaq, and that's only if you're talking about '96-'98 Jordan.

Yea thats what I was thinking. I was also thinking maybe not Grant Hill. The guy was young, thought to be the next Jordan, and it seemed he was just as popular as MJ at times, even beating him in the all-star ballot a few times. Other then these guys, I think every team would've traded their best player in an instant.

And yea before his first retirement, every team would offer anyone.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:35 AM   #22
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by SCREWstonRockets
I don't remember the exact details, but there was a draft day deal that could have had Drexler, Jordan and Hakeem on the same team. It was something like that, I read it in an article last year. Ok, I found the article, here it is:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....ulls-headlines

Thats crazy. Honestly though I think they would've looked to move Clyde eventually, cause has there ever been a time where two all-star shooting guards played together? And it was probably better for Michael Jordan that this didn't happen, cause he wouldn't be looked at as great as he was, because people would attribute alot of his success to Hakeem, and Hakeem may have been the focus of the team not Jordan. But yea, that team probably would've had around 10 championships. The Lakers, Celtics, or Pistons might've beaten them a few times in the beginning.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

Slightly off topic, but I remember from one of Jordan's books (Jordan Rules, Playing for Keeps, I can't remember), there were some trade rumors going on around the 95-96 season where Scottie Pippen was rumored to be part of a large deal that would have left the Bulls with a lineup of Shawn Kemp and Eddie Jones. They were looking to revamp the team after the loss to the Magic in Jordan's first comeback year. I also forget what got in the way of the trade talks, and I love Scottie, but you can only imagine what kind of damage a lineup of Rodman, Eddie Jones, MJ, and Shawn Kemp could do.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by MattLeybold
Slightly off topic, but I remember from one of Jordan's books (Jordan Rules, Playing for Keeps, I can't remember), there were some trade rumors going on around the 95-96 season where Scottie Pippen was rumored to be part of a large deal that would have left the Bulls with a lineup of Shawn Kemp and Eddie Jones. They were looking to revamp the team after the loss to the Magic in Jordan's first comeback year. I also forget what got in the way of the trade talks, and I love Scottie, but you can only imagine what kind of damage a lineup of Rodman, Eddie Jones, MJ, and Shawn Kemp could do.

I remember hearing a trade where the Bulls and Sonics swapped Pippen for Kemp, but this was before Jordan even came back. Jordan had an interview talking about this saying that if that had happened he wouldn't have came back. And if the Bulls got Shawn Kemp, I highly doubt they go after Rodman.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by guy
Thats crazy. Honestly though I think they would've looked to move Clyde eventually, cause has there ever been a time where two all-star shooting guards played together? And it was probably better for Michael Jordan that this didn't happen, cause he wouldn't be looked at as great as he was, because people would attribute alot of his success to Hakeem, and Hakeem may have been the focus of the team not Jordan. But yea, that team probably would've had around 10 championships. The Lakers, Celtics, or Pistons might've beaten them a few times in the beginning.

Agreed...MJ playing with Hakeem will make him looks like Kobe with Shaq ,and MJ probly would demand a trade IMO. MJ winnings 6 rings W/O a big man was a big factor to put him on GOAT spot
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:47 PM   #26
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by rzp
Agreed...MJ playing with Hakeem will make him looks like Kobe with Shaq ,and MJ probly would demand a trade IMO. MJ winnings 6 rings W/O a big man was a big factor to put him on GOAT spot
why would mj demand a trade? winning was what mattered to him. winning and dominating his opponents. he would have loved it. what would have changed is his marketing and his status with everyone else.

his explosive scoring might actually have pushed him into first option status since hakeem's complete offensive package didn't really coalesce until about 1992 and jordan was a 28 pt / game scoring option right off the bat. also jordan's practice intensity is legendary and his leadership skills are much more pronounced than hakeem's (especially akeems) - thorn says he was the lockerroom and floor leader after the team's first practice his rookie year, so it actually may have naturally become his team.

but even if it didn't, he showed a willingness to take a backseat to worthy at in college in order to win, and i think his mindset has always shown itself to be to win at any cost.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Was Michael Jordan ever tradeable?

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Originally Posted by rzp
Agreed...MJ playing with Hakeem will make him looks like Kobe with Shaq ,and MJ probly would demand a trade IMO. MJ winnings 6 rings W/O a big man was a big factor to put him on GOAT spot

It may be similar but it wont be like Kobe and Shaq. First off, Jordan would still be perceived better then what Kobe was with Shaq, cause he IS better then Kobe, and Shaq in his prime was better than Hakeem. And plus there wouldn't be many problems, cause Hakeem didn't have a huge ego like Shaq, so the fight for credit wouldn't have happened with Jordan and Hakeem, so no one would be demanding trades. Both these players probably would've split MVPs. I don't see any major problems. Jordan would probably have still led this team in scoring every year.
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