Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by Chalkmaze

Because Duncan is better.

That could be argued.

Originally Posted by Chalkmaze

Duncan is bigger, making him a better defender and better post player.

Hardly... By this reasoning, Yao is a better defender than Duncan. McHale in the Post = Duncan defensively, and McHale>Duncan offensively.

Originally Posted by Chalkmaze

Duncan has more range, Duncan is more athletic, is a better team player

I won't argue there. although McHale had a sweet J.

Originally Posted by Chalkmaze

and most of all, is one of the most unselfish and best passing big men of all time.

Ever heard of this guy named Bill Walton?

Originally Posted by Chalkmaze

didn't like to pass the ball back out.

It's wasn't really a bad thing...He shot 60%, so when he got the ball, you most likely knew it was going in.

NEXT...

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

Spurs aren't athletic today, but they can get away with it as long as the athletic teams are forced to play under late 90's rules.

Late 90's rules > current rules. This team with K.C. Jones as coach would be nearly as good defensively as the Spurs.
PG: Dennis Johnson
SG: Danny Ainge
SF: Manu Ginobili
PF: Kevin McHale
C: Robert Parish

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

Parish shuts down Amare?

Well, not likely shut down, but keep him at or below 23 PPG, with a bad percentage

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

DJ would have "no problem" containing the Nash P&R?

So a:
Finals MVP/6 time All-D First team/3 All-D Second team/1 All-NBA 1st and 2nd selection
who once contained Magic to 17 PPG in a series, and was one of the good defenders against Jordan, would have a hard time guarding, and containing, the great Steve Nash .

[IGOTGAME]

Originally Posted by RagingBull33

So a:
Finals MVP/6 time All-D First team/3 All-D Second team/1 All-NBA 1st and 2nd selection
who once contained Magic to 17 PPG in a series, and was one of the good defenders against Jordan, would have a hard time guarding, and containing, the great Steve Nash .

Yeah because a pick and roll is not covered by 1 man..its covered by a team..Unless the team can rotate correctly it wont matter.. and bette defenders then DJ have had trouble guarding Nash..

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by IGOTGAME

Yeah because a pick and roll is not covered by 1 man..its covered by a team..Unless the team can rotate correctly it wont matter.. and bette defenders then DJ have had trouble guarding Nash..

I was talking about Dennis guarding Nash 1 on 1. How can 1 man guard the pick and roll? Thats a two man job, so the OP was at fault.

Oh, and Dennis > Bowen defensively. and Bowen did a pretty decent job. What great defenders are you talking about?

[IGOTGAME]

Originally Posted by RagingBull33

I was talking about Dennis guarding Nash 1 on 1. How can 1 man guard the pick and roll? Thats a two man job, so the OP was at fault.

Oh, and Dennis > Bowen defensively. and Bowen did a pretty decent job. What great defenders are you talking about?

I have seen Kobe struggle guarding him because of the team defense as well as Ron Artest...also J-Kidd

I just dont see them getting past Shaq and Kobe...McHale just isnt the player Duncan was in LA v. Spurs days

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by IGOTGAME

I have seen Kobe struggle guarding him because of the team defense as well as Ron Artest...also J-Kidd

I just dont see them getting past Shaq and Kobe...McHale just isnt the player Duncan was in LA v. Spurs days

None of those defenders were as good a DJ was.
McHale probably was as good as Duncan vs. LA, but his greatest was overshadowev by Bird's.

[ExpatSunsFan]

Originally Posted by RagingBull33

who once contained Magic to 17 PPG in a series, and was one of the good defenders against Jordan, would have a hard time guarding, and containing, the great Steve Nash .

You understand that--by the numbers--the 2004-7 Suns have the best team offense in the history of the NBA, right?

If the Celts gave up 135 to Magic and the Lakers, they'd give up 150 to Phx easy. (For one thing, the Celts would never have seen anything remotely resembling the Suns' 3pt shooting.)

I was talking about Dennis guarding Nash 1 on 1.

You must not be too bright, then.

If Nash wanted to iso, he would do it against Parish or Bird, not Johnson.

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

You understand that--by the numbers--the 2004-7 Suns have the best team offense in the history of the NBA, right?

So that makes them the greatest team of all time time, right?
Now, you must not be too bright, then.

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

If Nash wanted to iso, he would do it against Parish or Bird, not Johnson.

I wasn't factoring the team game, I was talking about a 1 on 1 situation! Dennis would limit both Nash's assist and scoring opportunities. If pick and rolls was everything about team basketball, Nash, and every player for that matter, should be scoring 50 a game, seeing he should make it so he's defended by the worst defensive player every game they play.

[ExpatSunsFan]

Originally Posted by RagingBull33

So that makes them the greatest team of all time time, right?

On that half of the court, yes.

Originally Posted by RagingBull33

I wasn't factoring the team game, I was talking about a 1 on 1 situation! Dennis would limit both Nash's assist and scoring opportunities. If pick and rolls was everything about team basketball, Nash, and every player for that matter, should be scoring 50 a game, seeing he should make it so he's defended by the worst defensive player every game they play.

When you factor in points off assists, Nash does account for close to 50 per.

Other players can't run the P&R like Nash can, obviously.

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

On that half of the court, yes.

So, nevermind the weaker modern competition (most competetive era was probably around 83-97, the current/pussified rules that are used now, and the fact that they haven't won a championship.
Look, the Suns are my second favorite team, so it's not like I'm just busting their chops, but they don't compare to the 85-86 Celts, the Showtime Lakers, or the 90s Bulls dynasty for that matter.

Originally Posted by ExpatSunsFan

When you factor in points off assists, Nash does account for close to 50 per.

You completely missed the point, lol.

[IllegalD]

This thread is BEYOND retarded.

I'm sick of all you message-board R-tards playing this, "What if you replaced X player with X player on Y team?"

THERE's NO WAY OF KNOWING. What IS known, however, is that McHale was 2nd fiddle to the GOAT SF (and arguably one of the top 1-5 players of all time), and he played with one of the BEST frontcourts if not THE best in NBA history.

Duncan NEVER played with a player of Bird's caliber.

You honestly think that McHale would still dominate getting the kind of defensive attention that Timmy gets? GTFO of here, kid.

Go play 80's Legends teams on your NBA Live and jerkoff to McHale putting up improbably numbers as the #1 option the way Duncan has been ALL of his career.

#'s don't tell the whole story, kid. Especially with a player like Duncan. Duncan is one of those gifted players that can COMPLETELY dominate and control a game, without it seeming like it on the statsheet.

McHale could dominate for stretches in the low-post as the 2nd fiddle to the GREATEST SF of all time.

Not even close.

Mods, please close threads.

Retards...

[billybadass]

ten

[KULLS]

I've been watching the league for 50+ years, and I know, Mchale is not as good as Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is the only player of today that would do well in other era's (today is the weakest it's been since the introduction of blacks era).


Tim Duncan is better than Kevin, kids.

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by KULLS

Tim Duncan is better than Kevin, kids.

That's not the question. The question is that is there a big enough gap between McHale and Duncan for Duncan to be ranked 3-4 spots ahead of him in GOAT PF lists, and how many titles would the Spurs w/ McHale instead get.
Somehow we got off topic, and talked about if the 80s Celts had Manu instead of Bird, would they win a title today, and the obvious answer is yes.

[Brunch@Five]

The thing with McHale is that he is the biggest black hole on offense the league has ever seen. The Spurs' whole system would collapse with him instead if Duncan, because he simply was not a great passer. No open looks for Bowen from the corner, no free paths to the basket for Parker and Ginobili.
It sounds cliché, but McHale doesn't make his teammates better. At least not to the extent Duncan does.

[RagingBull33]

Originally Posted by Brunch@Five

The thing with McHale is that he is the biggest black hole on offense the league has ever seen. The Spurs' whole system would collapse with him instead if Duncan, because he simply was not a great passer. No open looks for Bowen from the corner, no free paths to the basket for Parker and Ginobili.
It sounds cliché, but McHale doesn't make his teammates better. At least not to the extent Duncan does.

Yeah, that may be his only fault, but still, who can blame a 60% scorer for shooting alot? I think when he became a starter, he kept his 6th man mentality where scoring is what is needed. He may have had a different mindset if he was the number one man on his team. When he played, he had great passers in Bird, Walton, and DJ, so where was the need for him to be a great passer?