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Old 09-22-2007, 07:02 PM   #1
RagingBull33
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Default Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

Kevin is usually ranked 4-5 on the all-time PF list, behind Duncan, Malone, and Chuck consistently. While he has the best post skills out of the four, and is was arguably as good defensively as Duncan, why is this? Was it because he played with Bird, and don't know how much he would've won without him? Is it because he never had the pressure of being the team leader?
Either way, he won 3 championships, although as the clear second fiddle to Bird (the GOAT SF), in one of the most competitive eras in the history of the NBA.
Still, what makes Duncan better than him?
McHale was better offensively, and was a great defender. We would never know how good McHale would be as the main man on a team.
The only evidence we have of how good he may have been, is that he led the Celts to a 42-40 record (Bird only played 7 games) in 88-89, past his prime (at 32 years old) mind you, putting up the numbers: 22.5/8.2/2.2 and 1.2 bloks.
Not a very good sample of how good he would have been as the star in his prime.

Comparing Duncan's prime numbers to Kevin's prime numbers:
86-87 Kevin McHale 26.1/9.9/2.6 and 2.2 blocks shooting 60%
01-02 Tim Duncan 25.5/12.7/3.7 and 2.5 blocks shooting 51%
Without a prime Larry Bird (monster rebounding SF, 25.8 PPG that year) on his team, Kevin's points and rebounds probably risen, almost to the extent to have Duncan's rebounding advantage deminish, and make up for his lack in assists compared to Timmy, with more PPG.

So you decide, what would Kevin's legacy have been if he was the man in San Antonio, instead of Duncan. Would he win more than 4 titles? Never make the Finals? Never make the playoffs? Whatever, you decide.


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Old 09-22-2007, 07:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

I thought I heard from someone that McHale was a sub-par defender who just blocked a lot of shots. They might have been talking about someone else though.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

^NBA All-Defensive First or Second Team six times...You don't get that from just blocking alot of shots, not in the 80s. Next time, you make your own decisions, don't listen to other uninformed people.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

I didn't see him.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

They would have maybe won with Robinson as a team mate.. but not after that.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalkmaze
They would have maybe won with Robinson as a team mate.. but not after that.
Any reasoning on this assumption?
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

WTF? Excuse my ignorance but was McHale ever a successful first option when Bird was hurt or anything???
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

^^^
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Originally Posted by RagingBull33

The only evidence we have of how good he may have been, is that he led the Celts to a 42-40 record (Bird only played 7 games) in 88-89, past his prime (at 32 years old) mind you, putting up the numbers: 22.5/8.2/2.2 and 1.2 blocks.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

the numbers you put above, Duncan surpasses every single one. so if McHale didnt have Bird holding him back he would put up Duncan type numbers and win 4 titles?

i dont think McHale was a dominate lowpost scorer. i never saw him play besides highlights but Robert Parish was also a very serviceable big along with Bill Walton on those celtics teams, so it wasnt like it was Bird and McHale only, winning all those titles.

i say McHale gets one ring...probably the 1999 title because in 2003 Duncan was a monster and he pretty much carried the team.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

McHale could not carry a team... sorry... Duncan > McHale any day of the week!




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Old 09-22-2007, 08:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

Quote:
i dont think McHale was a dominate lowpost scorer.

McHale was a dominant low-post scorer. His array of moves to go along with his herky-jerky movements and soft touch makes him an automatic double in most cases. His flashing to the ball skills were also superb. He was awesome at the little things that go into making a great post player effective.

He's certainly on par with Duncan in low post scoring.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

I never saw McHale play, but I would certainly question his leadership skills. Stats wise, they're just as good as Duncan's, but could Big Kev carry a team?
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

I say he's just as good if not better than Duncan and would fair no worse title -wise.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SsKSpurs21
the numbers you put above, Duncan surpasses every single one. so if McHale didnt have Bird holding him back he would put up Duncan type numbers and win 4 titles?

i dont think McHale was a dominate lowpost scorer. i never saw him play besides highlights but Robert Parish was also a very serviceable big along with Bill Walton on those celtics teams, so it wasnt like it was Bird and McHale only, winning all those titles.

i say McHale gets one ring...probably the 1999 title because in 2003 Duncan was a monster and he pretty much carried the team.
, McHale is the most skilled low post scorer of all time (Wilt and Shaq were better scorers, but Kev was more skilled)! Most people agree on that. He knew every move, and created a few of his own. Parish was a HOFer, but more a defensive one than a scorer. Parish from 86-87 had very similar stats to D-Rob of 98-99.

Walton was strictly the sixth man when he was healthy, and only played 10 games in 86-87, from which the McHale stats I posted are from.

And Duncan's stats don't beat McHale in all categories. McHale was a better, and more efficient, scorer than Duncan.
McHale has 26.1 on 60%
Duncan had 25.5 on 51%

McHale also had to play in more competative era, with better big man defenders (Hakeem, Moses, Patrick Ewing, etc.)

The only part of the game Duncan was considerably better than Kevin is passing and blocking, but McHale is a comparable man defender, better scorer, and probably and equal rebounder, factoring that Parish and Bird were both on McHale's team, both 10+ RPG players, McHales 9.9 RPG would probably translate to 11-13.5.

Last edited by RagingBull33 : 09-22-2007 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Replace Duncan with Prime McHale, how many Championships for the Spurs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingBull33
The only part of the game Duncan was considerably better than Kevin is passing and blocking, but McHale is a comparable man defender, better scorer, and probably and equal rebounder, factoring that Parish and Bird were both on McHale's team, both 10+ RPG players, McHales 9.9 RPG would probably translate to 11-13.5.

like i said, i never saw mchale play so i was just assuming like mostly everyone else here...

Duncans passing ability is also what opens up alot of scoring for Manu, tony and especially bruce bowen. his ability to command that double is also what makes him so dangerous.

also, you say that well parish and bird were on McHales team, they took away from his rebounding numbers...
now if he didnt have parish and bird would he have won all those titles as well carrying the celtics...forget beating the lakers, could he get out of the East?
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