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Old 09-21-2007, 04:17 PM   #31
KWALI
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

It's funny you open a thread with Kiri for Butler but it's like they are the principles in the trade.

And there is no way Utah wants Stephenson they already jetison him. Butler is sufficient at SG and they got Miles he should be coming along now no?
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

You're up in the night. I wouldn't even trade Gordon Giricek and two draft picks for Caron Butler much less Millsap and Kirilenko thrown in there. Word to Mother Earth....a handful of players could score like Caron if given 40 minutes a night to work with.....Gordon Giricek is definitely one of them.
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Old 09-21-2007, 05:43 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
1)What do you mean? Etan was starting for most of the second half of last year and he's starting this season.

2)You obviously didn't see how his shooting percentage and scoring avg went up when one or two of the big 3 was out. He's not a monster player and he has a past, but he's reliable. Orlando really didn't want to let him go.

That increase in shooting percentage and scoring average couldn't possibly have to do with getting more shots in the offense because one or two of the big three were out. And it couldn't possibly have anything to do with getting more minutes and more of a role because one or two of the big three were out.

Plus, people tend to remember what a player did last. Goldfish memory. DeShawn Stevenson's value is currently based on his pathetic performance in the playoffs last year. He's got a lot of ground to make up, Mr. 50 or no Mr. 50.

He doesn't have range, he's not getting past anyone, and he's not stopping anyone. He's great off of the bench when he's on, but he's completely useless if he's not on offensively. But, and this is a big but, he's only been there one year. If Arenas and Daniels wear off on him, he might become a bit more of a combo guard, be able to run the offense and do more little things when he's not on offensively, and actually be worth more. Every year he has gotten better. He's no worse than any other backup two in the league, except that depending on the lineup (and which Wizard is injured at that particular time), he might start.

But that's not the point here. We're talking about sending Stevenson to Utah. Utah already got rid of Stevenson. It didn't work out there. I don't remember specifics because I'm not really going out of my way to follow Stevenson around, but I do remember reading about his unhappiness in Utah, his unhappiness with Sloan, and not being happy with limited minutes and touches. Why would he go back? Why would Utah want him back?

It's simple. He wouldn't want to go back, Utah doesn't want him back. Is Utah so desperate to get rid of Kirilenko that they'll take on players they don't want? I don't know, they don't seem to be following Milwaukee's lead in getting players who don't want to be there, but it is Utah after all.
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
if you can find me a Magic or Wizards fan who would agree with you, then we can talk. until then you gotta come to terms with the fact that Deshawn has found his niche since leaving Utah and that he'd be an upgrade over all the guys you listed, at least for the time being.

What niche is that? Airballs in the playoffs? If he's truly found his niche, leave him in his niche. Oh, by the way, that niche isn't in Utah. He already looked there, remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
because of Brendan Haywood's self esteem. seriously.

when haywood comes off the bench he is horrible. Etan's the same player whether he's starting or not. anyway I'm not trying to tell you Etan's starter quality. but he is 3rd big-quality.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that Etan Thomas hasn't shown to be better than Haywood in any way, shape or form.

I know what you're saying, because Haywood does pout if he's not starting. His numbers drop off when he doesnít start, while Etanís number are pretty consistent whether heís starting or coming off of the bench. Haywood is obviously the problem child on the team, and will continue to be as long as he's there. What I find shocking is that he's -still- there. I haven't even seen one whiff of a rumor about Haywood.. but then again, just what has Washington done this offseason? From where I stand it looks like Washington wants to consider last year a "do-over" because of all of the injuries, not shake things up too much, and try again with the hand they're still holding. Plus, who really wants Haywood, especially when heís the one thatís been portrayed as the problem. Fighting with Thomas, fighting with Eddie Jordan, pouting about not starting, etc. Dump -his- ass, not Thomas.

However, if Etan was significantly better in any area, he'd be starting over Haywood. The hell with Haywoodís pouting if Thomas is giving you 20 and 12 a night. Iím not saying he would, but if he was putting that up, you can bet heíd be starting over Haywood. Although who knows, that might inspire Haywood to drop 20 and 12 a night too. But the reality is that Etan is not better, he's a lateral move from Haywood. The only difference between them is arrogance and ego. Haywood has both and it's a detriment to his game, Thomas doesn't have them and it's beneficial to his game. Beyond that, thereís not much difference between the two. If Millsap came in fighting for the starting center role, heíd probably beat Haywood out for it, although I personally thing Millsap would be too small to play center for too long, but who knows, it is the NBA in 2007. Thereís not exactly a glut of real centers out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
oh? Utah doesn't want or need a guy who will put up 18-20ppg with no plays drawn up for him and will be thrilled to do it? I have a hard time believing that.

So that's all that's important out of a player? Stats and whether they need plays drawn up for them? It has nothing to do with chemistry, playing style, offensive tempo, defensive tempo, offensive tendencies, defensive tendencies, substitution frequency, or matchups, right? No, just stats and what plays that player needs. Oh yes, that makes Caron the PERFECT player for Utah! He puts up X points! Thatís all they need!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
and the fact that you think Caron Butler is a SG and acquiring him would leave a hole at the 3 leaves me with the impression you don't really know anything about any of Washington's players involved. it gives me the impression you haven't seen any of these guys play since they came to Washington, and that anything you say about them is invalid.

That didnít take long. Here comes the assumptions. Figures.

First, show me where I said heís a SG. Show me where I said he ONLY EVER plays that position.

Second, show me how a player can play both the two and the three on the court at the same time.

I know Caron Butlerís game quite well, thank you. I watched him in Miami, I watched him in Los Angeles, and Iíve watched him in Washington. I like Caron Butler. I like Caron Butlerís game, but letís face it, heís not reinventing the wheel here. Heís not doing anything spectacular, and heís not going to in the near future here.

Let me make this easy for you:

Pre-trade:
Okur
Boozer
Kirilenko
NEED A TWO
Williams.

Post-trade:
Okur
Boozer
NEED A THREE
Butler
Williams

-OR-

Okur
Boozer
Butler
NEED A TWO
Williams

Can you figure that out now, or do I need to get you flash cards?

And before you respond with ďDeShawn StevensonĒ, let me laugh at you now

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
that's a really good objective view of the situation. no bias in it at all. you really stated the scenario honestly, there. well done. you should edit wikipedia. "Abortion: abortion is an issue in which baby-killing psychos want to kill all our unborn children."

Yeah, and thereís no bias in trying to give up Caron Butler, Etan Thomas and DeShawn Stevenson for Andrei Kirilenko and Paul Millsap. No, no bias at all. No homerism here!

I wasnít being objective at all, I was looking at this trade from the point of view of Utah. I didnít look at it from the point of view of Washington, because you have that well covered, and because itís obviously a one-sided trade. No matter how you want to measure the value of the players involved, you will never come up with anything even close to equal value, unless youíre talking Butler plus Jamison for Kirilenko and Millsap. If Washington drafted decently within the last ten years, they mightíve had a young talent with potential that could come closer to the value Utah places on Millsap, but since they havenít, thatís really all youíve got.

Oh, and Iíll bet theyíd be really happy if you took Giricek anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
people as a whole aren't saying anything. opinions on this trade are quite ambivalent all around, and it seems like the people who don't like it are Jazz fans who don't know anything about the players they would be receiving.

Nice assumption to make about everyone, too bad you have absolutely zero information to go on. Pot calling the kettle black? Definitely.

Why donít you make a few calls around the league to see how this trade idea sits with people. Make sure you record Larry Millerís phone call, I love to hear that guy laugh. Iím not a Jazz fan, and Iím not a Wizards fan. I like some players that happen to be on both teams though, and therefore take an interest in both teams. There are plenty of teams I have absolutely zero interest in. I actually have more interest in Washington than Utah, because I have more interest in players on Washington than Utah. Iíve followed Jamison, Butler, Daniels, and Arenas for longer than Williams, Brown (gone now), Harpring, and to a much lesser degree Jason Hart.

Instead of assuming what other people donít know, why donít you work on looking past your own bias and homerism and including a little reality. This is the type of trade Hawker would suggest, if he were a Wizards homer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
not like this deal is some cure-all, but neither team is getting ripped off, period (notwithstanding if Millsap turns into some kinda monster, but I can't see him ever getting more than 16/10 in a starting role) whether the trade is worth doing or not is the question. whether Utah would just be better off letting Kiri go and keeping the money and Millsap's potential is the question. this trade does not make Utah worse from where they were last year. it just doesn't. if anything, there's a chance the Wizards get worse, and when I was making this trade, I almost took it back because the player the Wizards are getting back has a max contract, is always injured, is an insecure whiner, has no real practiced skills, and took the last season off.

It causes way more problems than it solves. In fact, it only solves two problems: Finding someplace else for Kirilenko and getting Utah a starting two.

Also, youíre forgetting one -MAJOR- thing here: You never trade big for small. Butlerís not going to suddenly sprout to 6'11" tomorrow.
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
you will never come up with anything even close to equal value, unless youíre talking Butler plus Jamison for Kirilenko and Millsap.
Ha!

People seem to be overrating Millsap in here. Yes he's got potential, but he hasn't shown that much. Hustle and rebounding. That's pretty much what his game boils down to. He can hit the midrange jumper occasionally, but I wouldn't say he's proficient or reliable with it. He doesn't have many offensive moves, maybe a post up and a power move here and there, but again, nothing that can be relied on for consistent buckets. He's a solid rebounder, and a solid defender. I'm not seeing much difference between him and Varajao, or hell, even a Turiaf or Maxiell.

You make it out to seem as if Washington gets away with murder on this one Jalen. AK's value is low at the moment. The gap between Caron and Marion isn't that great, and Caron is certainly a great long-term replacement at the 3 for the Jazz.

Stevenson isn't useless as you make him out to be. He played for Utah what, 4 years ago? Improvement? Ever heard of it? He did a solid job against the majority of the 2-guards the Wiz came up against. He hit 40% from 3 last year on over 2 a game, so he can obviously hit the open jumper. Decent finisher at the rim, good defender, hits the open shot. What more do you want?

Are you still judging Raja Bell by the player he was in Dallas? Or Phili? Would both of those teams reject having him back because of an insane 'been there, done that' thought process? Of course not. They'd love him back. I'm not saying Utah would love Deshawn back, or that he's on the same level as Raja, but to dismiss him completely because he failed with an organization 4 years ago and has obviously improved is non-sensible.

AK wants out. Caron is a great replacement, a gritty, do-it-all unselfish guy who doesn't mind taking the backseat (as the 3rd/4th option) on a team. In fact, he would likely be one of, if not the best 4th option in the league. He needs to work on his team defense, rotations are late, not always in position, but these are easily fixable things under a guy like Jerry Sloan, who I have a feeling a modest guy like Caron would thrive under.

As gee said, Deshawn would likely be the 6th best player on the team. They would continue to use Harpring off the bench for major stints, the only difference would be that when Matt's not in the game, they would actually have a guy out there who isn't a major liability on either end.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by JalenRawley
That increase in shooting percentage and scoring average couldn't possibly have to do with getting more shots in the offense because one or two of the big three were out. And it couldn't possibly have anything to do with getting more minutes and more of a role because one or two of the big three were out.

Plus, people tend to remember what a player did last. Goldfish memory. DeShawn Stevenson's value is currently based on his pathetic performance in the playoffs last year. He's got a lot of ground to make up, Mr. 50 or no Mr. 50.

He doesn't have range, he's not getting past anyone, and he's not stopping anyone. He's great off of the bench when he's on, but he's completely useless if he's not on offensively. But, and this is a big but, he's only been there one year. If Arenas and Daniels wear off on him, he might become a bit more of a combo guard, be able to run the offense and do more little things when he's not on offensively, and actually be worth more. Every year he has gotten better. He's no worse than any other backup two in the league, except that depending on the lineup (and which Wizard is injured at that particular time), he might start.

But that's not the point here. We're talking about sending Stevenson to Utah. Utah already got rid of Stevenson. It didn't work out there. I don't remember specifics because I'm not really going out of my way to follow Stevenson around, but I do remember reading about his unhappiness in Utah, his unhappiness with Sloan, and not being happy with limited minutes and touches. Why would he go back? Why would Utah want him back?

It's simple. He wouldn't want to go back, Utah doesn't want him back. Is Utah so desperate to get rid of Kirilenko that they'll take on players they don't want? I don't know, they don't seem to be following Milwaukee's lead in getting players who don't want to be there, but it is Utah after all.

Spoken like a person who doesn't watch the Wiz play every night.

The Big 3 counts for 60% of the offense, give or take. When all 3 are there, Deshawn gets about 11 a game, anywhere from 35%-40% shooting. When one or two was out, he goes up to 14 a game, 40%-50% shooting. So how is he not getting more touches? Wouldn't it make sense that he'd get more shots if one of them is out?

Generally he doesn't take many shots, but he doesn't need to with the Wiz offense. But if he had no range at all, he'd never be Mr. 50. And he's started every game in the last 2 years for DC and Orlando, so he must be doing something right.

But you're right, the point is he's not going back to Utah, that never was a good fit for him. It just wasn't his time. Sloan has never been a fan a young hot-headed one-dimensional players, which is what Deshawn was back then. He's a great supporting player who hustles and has offensive flashes every now and again, the Wiz need that more than Jazz do.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Deshawn Stevenson should never put on a Jazz uni again. A lot of 2's have a hard time making their shots in Sloans offense becuase of the quick release he requires when they curl off the pick to the top of the key. I see that play run over and over every game. I think Stevenson is finally shooting well now that he can play in a different system. Utah fans had their hopes on the high school draftee every year when he would devour the Rocky Mountain Revue, seriously, nobody wants him back even if he is better.

The realistic option for Washington to make a bid for AK is Jamison. Maybe even strait across. AK would play well as a 4 in the east, sudenly the Wiz have interior defense. Jamison has played at high efficency around scorers when he was in Dallas...around Boozer, Williams, Okur, Hapring he would probably be well over 50% fgs. And the kicker is the expiring contract. It makes all the difference.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Ha!

People seem to be overrating Millsap in here.

Before I even read past this I just need to say:

Whoa, whoa, don't get me wrong. I don't believe Millsap is that good of a player, saying that he is essentially equal to Butler, and definitely not Jamison. I could see how that might be misconstrued with what I've been saying though so definitely, let me clarify. His value to Utah is that much right now. What he provides right now and the potential of what he might provide in the future, even if it's in only in trade value, is much more than that of what Butler would provide now and in the future. Jamison, I honestly can't imagine a team in the league that wouldn't want him. I'm certainly biased, and I don't think Kirilenko is worth Jamison in a trade, and I don't think Millsap is worth Butler. The point I was making was that those are your trade assets. They're not trading Gilbert for Kirilenko, no way in hell. Jamison? He's the leader of that team, he's worth way too much to the Wizards. Butler is a great third piece for them, but so could Kirilenko. I personally would rather have Kirilenko than Butler if I'm the Wizards. AK at the four, Jamison at the 3, Stevenson at the two, Gilbert running the point, and whichever of the undynamic duo is up to starting at center, Daniels as a combo guard coming off the bench, Blatche will bring the honeys.

But yeah, I just want to make that clear. I don't think Millsap is worth that much, but I think Utah thinks he is, and Millsap's not moving unless whatever is coming in makes a -big- splash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
You make it out to seem as if Washington gets away with murder on this one Jalen. AK's value is low at the moment. The gap between Caron and Marion isn't that great, and Caron is certainly a great long-term replacement at the 3 for the Jazz.

If I'm Utah, and you're getting half of my size, half of my hustle, and half of my players who do more than one thing well, I -better- be getting something that makes me better than I was. I realize that Kirilenko's awful season coinciding with Utah's good season makes him lose a lot of value, let alone respect, for him and his game. However, part of the reason for Kirilenko's production was struggling with his role, and him completely losing confidence in everything once he fell to the pressure of that. Now, that's most definitely his fault and reflects significantly on his value, but Sloan and Miller certainly haven't helped matters. They made a bad situation much worse. Now from here even if Kirilenko is back to his old self, who knows if this sort of thing could happen again? But if he's confidant and motivated, that's a lot of valuable potential there. That's essentially what Utah is banking on when it comes to trading Kirilenko. His contract will require taking back either one big pile of crap, or lots of little piles of crap, and while they probably wouldn't want to deal with the distraction keeping Kirilenko around, they really don't want to shoot themselves in the foot while they're trying to improve on last year, which means making the conference finals.

So there's the question you have to ask yourself: Does this trade put me in the conference finals or not? Does adding Butler and any two Wizards not named Jamison or Arenas while subtracting Kirilenko and Millsap get Utah in the conference finals this season? I've gotta say no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Stevenson isn't useless as you make him out to be. He played for Utah what, 4 years ago? Improvement? Ever heard of it? He did a solid job against the majority of the 2-guards the Wiz came up against. He hit 40% from 3 last year on over 2 a game, so he can obviously hit the open jumper. Decent finisher at the rim, good defender, hits the open shot. What more do you want?

I've heard of improvement. Have yet to see much of it, but yeah, I've heard of it. He did do a solid job, I will completely agree with that. But solid is not good, and good is not great.

Dirk was the MVP of the league and Dallas looked like they were going to waltz into the Finals. Then the playoffs happened.

Stevenson had a really good regular season, fit in well with the team, and had the chance to finally show why the world he was drafted out of high school. Finally show people the value of "potential". Then the playoffs happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Are you still judging Raja Bell by the player he was in Dallas? Or Phili? Would both of those teams reject having him back because of an insane 'been there, done that' thought process? Of course not. They'd love him back. I'm not saying Utah would love Deshawn back, or that he's on the same level as Raja, but to dismiss him completely because he failed with an organization 4 years ago and has obviously improved is non-sensible.

Raja steps up when the chips are down. Stevenson didn't. And actually, I still judge Raja Bell by the player he was in Philadelphia, not in Dallas. He's a perfect example of a player who is great because of effort, not because of any natural skills or proclivity. I love Raja Bell.

It's pretty easy when you turn the tables. I'm not saying Stevenson is worthless, I'm also not saying he's a bad player. But he's not a great player either. But his value to Utah? Zero. If he was in their plans, he'd be there. They didn't trade him because it was too good of an offer to pass up, they wanted to move him, he wanted to be moved. How hard is this to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
AK wants out. Caron is a great replacement, a gritty, do-it-all unselfish guy who doesn't mind taking the backseat (as the 3rd/4th option) on a team. In fact, he would likely be one of, if not the best 4th option in the league. He needs to work on his team defense, rotations are late, not always in position, but these are easily fixable things under a guy like Jerry Sloan, who I have a feeling a modest guy like Caron would thrive under.

As gee said, Deshawn would likely be the 6th best player on the team. They would continue to use Harpring off the bench for major stints, the only difference would be that when Matt's not in the game, they would actually have a guy out there who isn't a major liability on either end.


If it didn't include Millsap and Stevenson, I could definitely see it. However, Utah isn't adding Stevenson, and they're not giving up Millsap, and Washington doesn't have any other assets. I've spent all day explaining why this wouldn't work that I haven't really bothered to look to see how shuffling it around a bit could make it work. Would Caron Butler and Etan Thomas basically match up with Kirilenko's salary? AK's making what, $13M, Caron $8M and Etan $6M? Utah doesn't lose Millsap, gains a two or three, depending on Price and Almond, and adds 4/5 depth. That I could see.

But no Millsap, sorry. You could tell me that Caron Butler sh*ts golden eggs, but you're not prying Millsap away from Utah like that. I just can't see it happening.
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Old 09-21-2007, 08:48 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
Spoken like a person who doesn't watch the Wiz play every night.

The Big 3 counts for 60% of the offense, give or take. When all 3 are there, Deshawn gets about 11 a game, anywhere from 35%-40% shooting. When one or two was out, he goes up to 14 a game, 40%-50% shooting. So how is he not getting more touches? Wouldn't it make sense that he'd get more shots if one of them is out?

Spoken like a person who couldn't detect the sarcasm in what he read. But hey, at least you read it!

I just didn't go overboard with the -emphasis- on certain words, or a billion emoticons. Saying, "It couldn't POSSIBLY be because he's getting more minutes, could it?"

So, we're essentially saying the same thing. Of course his points per game and shot percentage is going to go up because he's going to be filling in for someone who is injured, taking on an expanded role, playing more minutes, getting shots within the offense. Whereas when everyone is there and healthy, he has a lesser role to play. I said it in response to "You obviously didn't see how his shooting percentage and scoring avg went up when one or two of the big 3 was out. He's not a monster player and he has a past, but he's reliable. Orlando really didn't want to let him go." Again, of course his numbers are going to go up when one or two of the big three were out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
Generally he doesn't take many shots, but he doesn't need to with the Wiz offense. But if he had no range at all, he'd never be Mr. 50. And he's started every game in the last 2 years for DC and Orlando, so he must be doing something right.

He has range to about 18-20 feet. He's improved it over the years for sure, although I was a bit surprised when he was talking sh*t to Arenas about college three pointers. I wasn't surprised that Stevenson might've expanded his range and had gotten good at them, but as good as Arenas? No

He's started for the same reason Haywood started: Who else is going to start? If they had someone else, they'd start. If they had someone better at power forward, they'd bump Jamison down, bump Butler down and have Stevenson come off the bench. He started all 82 games there though, and as Geewiz said, he did find a niche, even though I poked fun at it. He will continue to improve, but he's just not a great player. He'll peak at good, and that's not a bad thing, it's just how it is. And hey, he might prove me wrong, and more power to him if he does, but I'm just not seeing it. If he was, I thought we would've seen it in last year's playoffs. That's the big thing that he's got to overcome, at least in my eyes. He had his best season last year, and just didn't show it in the playoffs. We've nailed Dirk to the cross, but we let Deshawn slide? That's not right. He's gotta take his lumps, and he's gotta prove himself once more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean77
But you're right, the point is he's not going back to Utah, that never was a good fit for him. It just wasn't his time. Sloan has never been a fan a young hot-headed one-dimensional players, which is what Deshawn was back then. He's a great supporting player who hustles and has offensive flashes every now and again, the Wiz need that more than Jazz do.

I couldn't agree more. Sloan is the big part of what's screwing up the whole Kirilenko deal too. He's not going to "nurture", he's going to say "grow the f*ck up kid".
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Millsap was the MVP of the Rocky Mountain Review... he was in better shape.. was a rebounding machine, and scored from both inside and outside.. He has the potential to be the next Dennis Rodman, but with scoring, and no attitude... He's a long ways from that yet... but he's on that track... even if he becomes half that player.. he'd be quite an asset. He was already valuable in pressure situations in the playoffs, the guy has tons of upside, "not to mention he comes from the same place as Karl Malone, and so far has appeared to show the same type of work ethic.

The award went to Millsap -- a legit candidate who went into Friday's play averaging a team-leading 17.2 points and team-high 8.6 boards over five games.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...kymountainday6

"He's starting to grow," Tyrone Corbin said, "and that's one of the things that's gonna be key for him."

"Amazing progress,'' added Scott Layden, the former Jazz and New York Knicks general manager who now is back coaching in Utah. "He's gotten better. He was in great shape. He was more efficient and more effective scoring. His rebounding goes without saying, because he always seems to [grab] one in under every three minutes, which is excellent in the league. He's great. Great in practice, great leadership. We're very fortunate that he's on our team."

"I've still got a lot to work on,'' said Millsap, who led the nation in rebounding for three straight years while at, that's right, Karl Malone's old school.

"My offensive game is coming alive,'' he added. "Last year, I was a little tentative. I was just trying to play a role. Hopefully this year I will get a few more touches so I can try to be more aggressive and do things that I did most of this week.''


Last edited by Chalkmaze : 09-22-2007 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:25 AM   #41
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
Utah won't let go of Millsap. They're in love with him, and for good reason.
exactly
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:10 AM   #42
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Im all for Butler with the Jazz but not losing Millsap, If AK wants out then that sfine we get value out of him, but we wont agree to a deal involving millsap.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:09 AM   #43
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Quote:
Originally Posted by kumquat
I'd be trading Jamison and #1 for him, put kirilenko at PF.

Arenas
Stevenson
Butler
Kirilenko
Haywood

yeah it makes much more sense... i wouldn't trade Butler away yet... he's just reached his prime and AK47 was MDP (most dissapointing player) last season... and Bulter can guard anyone in the 2 to 4 spot as well as AK47...
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:25 AM   #44
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

Any trade to get rid of Etan and his bloated contract (and terrible 'poetry'). We get the same thing out of Haywood for much less money. Haywood is lazy, but with his size he makes up for everything Etan did.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:47 AM   #45
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Default Re: Kirilenko for Butler

The original post is interesting, although I do think the Jazz would prefer Jamison's expiring contract, instead of being tied to Butler's huge deal.

Butler and Stevenson aren't good enough to get this team into the NBA Finals.

But next year, they could be a top tier free agent who might want to join the Jazz.
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