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Old 09-03-2007, 03:24 PM   #31
WillyJakk
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Top 10 passers then you definitely should add:

Chris Webber

Reason: Best passing big in the game today and a better passer than teammate Chauncey Billups.

06-07 APG: 3.1
Highest APG: 5.4 (02-03 Kings)
Career APG: 4.3



Stephon Marbury

Reason: Must be personal bias you have against him but hate it or love it he's a better passer than some on the list. A better team will yield better results from Starbury this seaon.

06-07 APG: 5.4
Highest APG: 9.3 (98-99 TimberWolves)
Career APG: 7.9

Replace: McGrady and Billups. I'm even thinking Andre Iguodala could perhaps be on the list. Anyway nice topic.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkess
Explain.
Chris paul averages more assists through his first two years then deron, and cp3 had worse teammates, its as simple as that.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:42 PM   #33
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

I'd definitely take Paul over Deron. Deron has quickly become Paul's superior in the eyes of almost everyone because of this recent playoff run. I'm just not seeing the talent edge, especially when it comes to passing. Having Boozer to play with all day isn't a luxury that Paul has. Paul did a hell of a lot with what he had (for the time he played) last year, and you could tell that the situation was somewhat like LeBron's. A bad coach who had the one guy create everything, and, apart from the pick and rolls, didn't appear to have a whole lot, if any, designed sets to run for more offensive opportunities.

Btw, passing might be the hardest skill to judge in basketball. The stats can be inflated for any number of reasons, so assist numbers are extremely subjective. Do we judge the fancy, crowd-dazzling PG over the smart, mistake-proof, solid as a rock PG? Compare Billups to Davis. Who's the more skilled passer? Degree of difficulty/creativity-wise, that shouldn't even be discussed. No contest. And yet, who do you want running your offense? Do we judge players on the degree of difficulty on the passes he sometimes completes, or do we judge him on how consistent he is with passes that may not be overly creative, but work for him every single time? I'm getting the impression that this list is made up of the former, and that's fine by me. As I said, it's a difficult thing the distinguish.

Last edited by RidonKs : 09-03-2007 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Glove: Yes, that's a pretty fair assessment. But Iverson's actual skill and talent at passing is still very high, though the fact that he gets pressured as a scorer and is forced to give it up to an open teammate is also a legitimate argument.

WillyJakk: I was definitely considering Marbury for this list. It was more of a case of "this player is more worthy to be on this list than Marbury" than "Marbury isn't good enough to be on this list". I'd have him around 12 or 13 though. As for Webber, I really don't see him being a better passer than Billups. The best big man passer? He definitely has a case, though the competition is tough - Duncan, Garnett, Diaw, Ilgauskas, etc. He is an exceptional passer for a big man, though. Probably second best on the team.

Kobe Bean Bryant: That's not a very good way to look at it. If you want to say Paul > Williams at passing, that's fine, but assists is the only thing that makes you believe that? Paul had higher assists than Wiliams in his rookie year, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that Paul had a huge role while Williams didn't have a role as large as Paul's. Williams only averaged 28 minutes per game while Paul averaged 36. Also, Williams averaged more assists than Paul this year. Plus, Williams has proven he can be a playmaker when it matters most - in the playoffs. Though Paul's team has had issues and hasn't been able to show their true potential, Paul hasn't proven he can be that kind of a player in the playoffs and dominate like Williams. Williams averaged 19/8 in the playoffs. Paul has never even been there.

Last edited by Richie2k6 : 09-03-2007 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:53 PM   #35
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Diaw isn't a bigman. He's a small forward.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

McGrady is more of a guard than a forward. Career Starts- G- 377, F- 166
Starts last yeat- G- 70, F- 1

Lebron has to be on the list. Also why is Iverson on the list? Anyone could average 7 assists if they held the ball as much as he does.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Also why is Iverson on the list? Anyone could average 7 assists if they held the ball as much as he does.
I knew somebody would say this. Here's something I wrote about Iverson before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
He's developed into one of the best passers in the league as well. A coach could trust him to facilitate the ball, and he would. His mentality has changed from 5 years ago. He's gone from a scorer, to a scorer and playmaker at the same time. He could go out there and get you a 25/7 game, or he could go out there and get you a 20/10 game. People say he's a ball hog and that his assists only come because he handles the ball a lot? Wrong. Again, if you were to watch tape of his gameplay, you'd see that his assists don't just come because he passes it to people randomly. He's one the of the best penetrate n' kickers in the NBA. He's always dribbling with his head up to see the open man. He's become very unselfish since he's come to Denver. In fact, George Karl said out of his own mouth, that he has to tell Iverson to shoot MORE since he's become TOO unselfish. He's matured as a player and he knows his role on the Nuggets and that it's not to shoot 25 shots per game. His FGA's has gone down from, what, 25 to 18? He's become a great passer and playmaker, and that shows through his numbers and his skill at passing itself. He's proven he can do both at the same time, when he put up 44/15 against the Suns a while back, and averaged 31.2PPG, 10.0APG, 2.2 SPG, 90% FT shooting, 47% shooting from the field and 41% shooting from beyond the arc while averaging almost all 48 MPG. (47.8) in a 5 game series against the Pistons in the '05 Playoffs. That proves that when he's on, he can score with the best of them, and efficiently as well.
Iverson's assists don't just come because he has the ball a lot. Why don't you go watch him play properly and thoroughly rather than criticizing him.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:10 PM   #38
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
I knew somebody would say this. Here's something I wrote about Iverson before:


Iverson's assists don't just come because he has the ball a lot. Why don't you go watch him play properly and thoroughly rather than criticizing him.

I have watched him play. For about 10 years! I liked him his second year that was before he became one of the most selfish players in NBA history. His chucking only worked in one system and that was Larry Brown's and that only worked because he had 2 of the best reboudners on that team and a great defensive team. He is an amazing talent and had the potential to be an Isiah Thomas type player but he is too selfish.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:14 PM   #39
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
I have watched him play. For about 10 years! I liked him his second year that was before he became one of the most selfish players in NBA history. His chucking only worked in one system and that was Larry Brown's and that only worked because he had 2 of the best reboudners on that team and a great defensive team. He is an amazing talent and had the potential to be an Isiah Thomas type player but he is too selfish.
... Another thing I said before about Iverson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
People say he takes a lot of shots as if he was a ball hog. Really, he wasn't. He just simply handled the ball a lot and scored a lot on Philadelphia.

A ball hog is somebody who has a me-first mentality and attitude, and does foolish things with the ball when it could easily be given up to a teammate. A ball hog prefers not to pass by their own decision. Iverson was not a ball hog. It was his JOB to handle the ball a lot and score. Larry Brown TOLD HIM he was supposed to score and handle the ball - it was part of their offensive gameplan. Let Iverson score. Same with today's Lakers. Kobe is supposed to handle the rock and is supposed to score. That doesn't make him a ball hog. It's his duty to go out there and score night after night. Iverson was doing his job, not hogging. There's a difference. Are you going to call Marcus Camby a rebound hog next? That's his job, like Iverson and Kobe were to score. Ball hogs and lead offensive weapons are two different things, and many people don't understand that.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:19 PM   #40
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
... Another thing I said before about Iverson.

Kobe doesn't shoot 39-41% while jacking up 26-28 shots per game. When Kobe took 28 shots per game he shot about 46% and averaged 35.4 ppg.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
Kobe doesn't shoot 39-41% while jacking up 26-28 shots per game. When Kobe took 28 shots per game he shot about 46% and averaged 35.4 ppg.
And when Iverson took less shots he shot .003% less than Kobe.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:26 PM   #42
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
And when Iverson took less shots he shot .003% less than Kobe.

Yeah but that doesn't take into consideration how much better Kobe shoots 3's. That makes his 27 shots more efficient.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMVP1551
Yeah but that doesn't take into consideration how much better Kobe shoots 3's. That makes his 27 shots more efficient.
Now tell me what that has to do with Iverson's passing. Let's stay on topic and not turn this into an Iverson vs Kobe thread.
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Old 09-03-2007, 04:58 PM   #44
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

My top 3:

1. Steve Nash
2. Jason Kidd
3. Deron Williams

So I agree with the list.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: Top 10 Passers

Steve Nash Would Be The Best Passer In The NBA. J KIDD Would have To be Preety Close To Tieing With Steve Nash. Lebron James Should Be In The List. :)
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