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Old 08-17-2007, 02:28 AM   #46
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

think about who took the shot against the Spurs with .4 seconds left on a Phil coached team? Fisher
heck, I've seen Odom and Parker taking the last shot in the past 2 seasons
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Old 08-17-2007, 02:34 AM   #47
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
quick note on decoy plays: in 2002, the wizards beat the lakers on a last second shot. everybody in the stadium knew it was coming to jordan who had already hit some very difficult shots over kobe and fox. the ball was inbounded to michael who leaned back like he was going into his fadeaway bump and spin, and jerry stackhouse (who i believe was the inbounder) cut by him, jerry's man cheated off to help mike, and mj tossed a great pass for an easy dunk and the win (kobe looked furious though i can't recall if was the one on mike or the one who dropped a step behind stack to help on mike).

that was a perfect decoy play because not only did it look like jordan was going to take the shot, if the pass to jerry hadn't been there, he was in position to get something off himself.


I remember that play very well. I believe it was the opening week of the 2002-03 season. I knew Jordan was going to get double or even triple teamed. Sure enough, Stackhouse was wide open and got the dunk for the win. Kobe was beyond furious. He got outsmarted by MJ.
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Old 08-17-2007, 02:54 AM   #48
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

A cab driver in downtown Portland told me what a jack ass Pippen was when it came time to pay the driver. Pippen asked if the ride was saying things like "do you know who I am, I'm Scottie Pippen". He told me a few great players that tipped well. Jermaine O'neal was mentioned as most generous.
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:03 AM   #49
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

I like Pippen, but that was a completely gut-less move on his part, he's lucky the internet as it is today wasn't as mainstream back then, because he would've gotten completely roasted for that.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:27 AM   #50
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Lol...

I'm not sure how I feel with Orlando. I mean do you really want Dwight shooting? Do you really want anyone on that team shooting?

I know if I'm a Cleveland fan I'd be happy to see that. Can you imagine LeBron actually wanting to take a game winner? Instead of giving that shook look of "Oh ****, I gotta try and hit a big shot again, I hate these"
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:29 AM   #51
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegalD
And its not the FIRST TIME that PJ has made an "unorthodox" call. It's called being SMART/STRATEGIC. EVERYONE in the arena knew Pippen was getting the ball. PJ was 5 steps ahead of everyone else. Plus he knew that if the Bulls had ANY chance of advancing he would have to BOOST the young (but TALENTED) Rookie's confidence.

I will add that he was not only young and talented. He's already played a lot of finals in Europe and he was used to take the shot in pressure. He wasn't the typical rookie player. Maybe PJ has made an "unorthodox" call, but it's the RIGHT call, and that's because he is the best NBA coach, I think. (European coaches are much much better, they have another way to understand the play)
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:41 AM   #52
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
A cab driver in downtown Portland told me what a jack ass Pippen was when it came time to pay the driver. Pippen asked if the ride was saying things like "do you know who I am, I'm Scottie Pippen". He told me a few great players that tipped well. Jermaine O'neal was mentioned as most generous.

In Chicago, Scottie was known as "No tippin' Pippen". I used to work in River North, and I’d hang out and talk hoops with a buddy of mine who worked the booth at the parking lot near my building. He grew up on the same block as Juwan Howard and is best considered an “acquaintance” because Juwan was a bit older than him, it’s not like they hung out or anything. But he’s played a few pickup games with him and other Chicago players, especially down at Harold Washington. This was back in 2000-2001, and the parking lot was directly across Wells street from the Hooters there. There were always NBA guys that hung out at that Hooters, I personally met Michael Finley and Randy Brown there. It was when Finley was a free agent, right before Dallas signed him to that mega huge contract, and we both were telling him he needed to come back to Chi!

But anyway, back to Pippen.. He has a -horrible- reputation with drivers, parking attendants, waiters, etc., because he’s a -real- penny pincher and he was always really arrogant and standoffish towards everyone.

As for the infamous 1.8 seconds, you have to take a couple extra things into account to understand why Scottie reacted the way he did. These don’t justify his actions, but these definitely help explain the story a bit more.

Krause had been chasing Kukoc for three or four years at that point instead of trying to recruit a veteran that could help out the team. Krause was convinced that Kukoc was the greatest thing since sliced bread. By the time Kukoc finally came to Chicago, the rest of the team already had a bad impression of him because nobody ever liked Krause, they were sick of hearing about Kukoc and were a bit miffed that he held out signing for as long as he did.

When Jordan left, Pippen was left to be the man. He felt it was his right to get the last shot, something Jordan always got. He felt it was his right to get a lot of the things only Jordan got prior to that. When Horace Grant left, they tried to make Scottie play a bit of power forward at times, and asked him to concentrate more on his rebounding, which to Scottie took as basically a demotion. He wanted to Jordan’s role, the Bulls wanted him to take Grant’s role. Scottie just isn’t a power forward even though his height and wingspan could allow him to pull off the position against certain power forwards. He felt he’d be more prone to injury banging around trying to get rebounds, and most of all, he felt that he was underpaid. He had signed a long-term, relatively low dollar contract that the Bulls front office refused to negotiate. Scottie was always concerned about getting seriously injured to the point where it would diminish his skills, and wouldn’t have financial security if he didn’t sign long term. So when Jordan and Grant left, and he was asked to do everything, he was making peanuts while doing it. Later on, when Jordan came back, Pippen delayed his back surgery and played in Jordan’s celebrity game, which Krause told Pippen he was not allowed to do. So there were plenty of tensions between Pippen and the Bulls front office over the years, and neither side was innocent. Pippen signed a contract, he was quite immature with how he handled things, and Krause’s shortcomings (pun intended) were well known.

All of this set the stage for Pippen to eventually get fed up and say “**** this”. When he finally gets a chance to take the last shot in a game, and Jackson gives that last shot to Krause’s golden boy, that was just the last straw for Pippen and he blew up about it.

Although I was a huge Bulls fan, I really didn’t like Scottie very much. I didn’t dislike him, but he wasn’t one of my favorites. When he refused to go in the game, to me it was just to be expected. It was only a matter of time before he through a tantrum.

As far as the question of whether the play was a good play or not, in my opinion, relying on Toni Kukoc is -never- a good thing, but Phil Jackson likes to test his players as well, he likes to put them in a position where they have to persevere. In the case of this final play, he showed Kukoc that he had enough confidence in him to take that shot, which built up Kukoc’s confidence, something that was always lacking. He put trust in Pippen to not be selfish and be a leader by deferring to his teammates, something that he always had done with Jordan and in many people’s eyes was the key to the success of the team.

However, this might sound odd, but I think Pippen being on the bench helped that play be successful. When the other team is down and there’s 1.8 seconds to go, you assume the play is going to involve their best player in some way, but what do you assume when their best player is available but sitting on the bench? That might’ve thrown the Knicks for a bit of a loop. If he was inbounding the ball, they may have expected him to get the ball back after he inbounded and would’ve been a good decoy, but it’s possible that he made just as good of a decoy sitting on the bench.

Again, in my opinion it wasn’t a very good play, but Jackson isn’t the type of guy to make the safe call. He’s going to play hunches, he’s going to improvise and fly by the seat of his pants. Most of the time, they’re good decisions. One can question the wisdom of this play, and had Kukoc’s shot bricked out you’d be looking at things -way- differently. The shot going in does not make the play a good one, it makes the perception of the play a good one.
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Old 08-17-2007, 12:01 PM   #53
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread so forgive if I'm restating.

When MJ retired all season they asked Pippen to be MJ and he delivered his best season as a pro avg 22/8.7/5.6 carrying a team who just lost the GOAT, and had no significant additions, to 55 wins.

Now at a time when they needed MJ the most, they call a play for.....Toni Kukoc?!?!? Yes, he hit the shot so in hindsight it seems like he made the right decision. WWMJD? If MJ was still playing do you think Phil would've called that play for Toni. I think not. So, I don't have a problem with Scottie being PISSED. Everyone consistently questioned his heart and willingness to be the man and when he gets his biggest opportunity to prove this quality he is denied by his coach.

I do think he should've went back on the court though but it didn't/doesn't change my view of Scottie at all.
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:02 PM   #54
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Prime
Days later Jordan, hundreds of miles away in Birmingham, shook his head sadly. "Poor Scottie," he said. "I kept telling him it's not easy being me. Now he knows."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...ls/pippen.html

this statement just shows how self absorbed mj was. instead of saying something classy, he brings attention back to himself

the amazing part of the 1994 season for the bulls is that they won 55 games (compared to 57 the year before-- is mj just worth +2 games??)

it showed that they were a full team and not just the jordanaires.

pippen didnt have to be mj, all he had to be was himself and that made the bulls a team to be reckoned with


too bad pip chose the last second in a key playoff game to show his immaturity
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:53 PM   #55
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Dunker
*i wouldnt mind if the star player wasnt called upon to take the final shot, kukoc was a very good shooter, i probably would of done the same as phil...*

*but yerr if a player on my team, say billups, reacted like pippen did id be disgraced and embarrased and it would be very hard to keep billups among my favorite players, very hard...
Billups is not on the same level as PIPPEN was on that team.....It was a ***** move but you have to understand that PIPPEn was undisputed leader of that team...it was his legacy at stake....even now people don't say Phil didn't win without MJ they say that's excuseable but they say PIPPEN didn't win without MJ as if it would be different if it were the other way.
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Old 08-18-2007, 01:17 AM   #56
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
Lol...

I'm not sure how I feel with Orlando. I mean do you really want Dwight shooting? Do you really want anyone on that team shooting?

I know if I'm a Cleveland fan I'd be happy to see that. Can you imagine LeBron actually wanting to take a game winner? Instead of giving that shook look of "Oh ****, I gotta try and hit a big shot again, I hate these"

happy to see what? lbj refusing to go into the game a la pippen?

please clarify
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