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Old 08-16-2007, 12:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
What were you drinking cause I'm sure as hell going to have to try that.

Right now my favorites are Amaretto Sours, Screwdrivers, and Tom Collins'.

Oh, let me keep this semi-basketball related.... now that I think back on it Phil Jackson has a bit of a history drawing up crappy late-game/in-bounds plays.
beer, tequilla shots, seven & sevens, and rum & cokes were my poisons of choice back then. i was with my cousin and his whole design class (no one except him and i and one other guy gave a sh!t about basketball). i actually got into an argument with my cousin who insisted it was jordan who made the dunk. i wasn't that far gone anyway.

i actually tend to agree re: phil's inbound choices. i recall (and i was sober for this one) one of the games in the 1998 ECF against the pacers reggie hit a game winner, but chicago had time to get a shot off, rather than set a play going towards the rim mj caught the ball on the move and nearly banked in a three jumping along the three point line rather than straight up or forward. i'm not saying i'd coach the situation better, but i'd think he could come up with something to get the ball closer to the rim or to get a three for a player with squared shoulders. he did run some nice baseline inbound lob plays though.
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It was a decoy play in the clutch. The two or three times it might get used in a season it can be relied on because it catches the opposition by surprise. Kukoc was a good shooter having a bad series, Jackson kept his faith in him, and as we all know, that faith was rewarded. That wasn't a prayer, a "prayer" would be setting up a guy like Ben Wallace with a jumper. Remember, Kukoc was in fact skilled.
Setting up Wallace for a jumper??? That's not a prayer, That's throwing the game.

Honestly though, to me the play itself just sucked. Kukoc hitting the shot just hides that fact.
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
Honestly though, to me the play itself just sucked. Kukoc hitting the shot just hides that fact.

The play certainly didn't SUCK MORE than Pippen

Karma's a b*tch. Pip tried to force his star-power on Phil and the game-situation, and the basketball God's crapped on his ugly-@ss, Osama-Bin-Laden looking face.



and PJ is still a GENIUS.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
to alcohol the cause of and solution to all of the life's problems.

well at least when king watches this, he'll see mj actually being a decoy. as in not involved but occupying the best defender on the other team.

and for the record - my memory made it much more exciting. thanks for the link.

that was too funny...

youre in good company here d-jrdn cause

now, it makes me think that probably most of what is posted here at ish has been alcohol enhanced/impaired

things are a lot clearer to me now with this understanding...

Last edited by RainierBeachPoet : 08-16-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:06 PM   #35
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Default what if your star today did the same thing?

a little more info on the pippen/kucoc/jackson incident:

jackson decides NOT to say anything to pippen but let the team handle it themselves, i believe, in a closed lockerroom

bill cartwright just read scottie the riot act and the other team members all agreed


also: getting back on point with one of my original questions-- only a few people commented on how they would feel if the star on your current favorite team ever did what pippen did.

imagine: kobe, lebron, duncan, nash
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Days later Jordan, hundreds of miles away in Birmingham, shook his head sadly. "Poor Scottie," he said. "I kept telling him it's not easy being me. Now he knows."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...ls/pippen.html
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Well guess what Einstein?

THE SHOT WENT IN!!!

So it was the RIGHT call.
Just because it was successful doesn't mean it was the right call.
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

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Originally Posted by saKf
Just because it was successful doesn't mean it was the right call.
Yes it does.


[SARCASM]

So what it was a 23 foot turn-around fade-away three?! Phil is such a genius zen master that he knew Kukoc, who was being totally handcuffed by Anthony Bonner and Anthony Mason, would hit that shot.[/SARCASM]
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

I (and, I'm assuming, Da KO King) laugh audibly at the notion that a shot going in means it was the right decision.



"HOLLA!"
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

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Old 08-16-2007, 06:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
At this point I'm not even talking about Pip versus Toni. I'm talking the play itself.

Go back and look at the play design. Phil Jackson called a play that the primary option was a turn-around Three-ball with his team down one.

Regardless of the ball falling through the net that's just bad play-calling/play-designing.

there seems to me to be four scenarios:
  1. a well drawn up play where the shot drops
  2. a well drawn up play where the shot misses
  3. a crappy play where the shot drops
  4. a crappy play where the shot misses
for many people, it doesnt matter what you draw up, as long as the shot goes in (if you are cheering for the offense) or if it misses (if youre cheering for the defense). winning and losing is what the bottom line is

for purists, the actual drawn up play is what is important-- no matter if the shot goes in or not
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:45 PM   #42
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
Yes it does.


[SARCASM]

So what it was a 23 foot turn-around fade-away three?! Phil is such a genius zen master that he knew Kukoc, who was being totally handcuffed by Anthony Bonner and Anthony Mason, would hit that shot.[/SARCASM]

Dude...

Do us ALL a F*CKING favor and watch the video of the shot I posted. It was a great shot. Its SLIGHTLY contested, at MOST. The defender didnt even jump or raise his handa that much. It was perfect. 1.8, just enough for a catch-turn-&-shoot, something me (and obviously feel) have more confidence in Kukoc executing than Scottie "2nd" Pippen.

Also, watch the other play in which JORDAN played the Decoy (kinda like Pippen was supponsed to), and he DIDN'T even TOUCH the ball, yet he was still the most important player in the play (as the decoy) because the entire defense, including the opponents best perimeter defender (Kobe) was zeroed-in on him. REsult?: WIDE OPEN dunk, going toward the hoop, for Crackhouse
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

I gott ask what are you seeing when you look at these videos.

Jordan wasn't a decoy cause he was no place near the action. Yes, he drew the Lakers top perimeter defender but that is not make him a decoy. Using Mike as a decoy would have been having him set the Euro screen for Stack.

As for the Kukoc play I'm not going to keep debating it. If you think a turn-around fade-away is a good play call when inbounding from half-court that's perfectly fine by me.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:58 PM   #44
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
I gott ask what are you seeing when you look at these videos.

Jordan wasn't a decoy cause he was no place near the action. Yes, he drew the Lakers top perimeter defender but that is not make him a decoy. Using Mike as a decoy would have been having him set the Euro screen for Stack.

As for the Kukoc play I'm not going to keep debating it. If you think a turn-around fade-away is a good play call when inbounding from half-court that's perfectly fine by me.

I took offense more with you questioning The ZenMaster's genius.

Phil is one of the best of all time if not THE BEST. Because:

1) He teaches a complicated but intuitive and flexible offense.

2) He is able to get the most out of his players.

3) He is able to manage huge egos

4) He's a master motivator and manipulator.

5) He gets his teams to commit to D as their abbilities allow

6) He f*cking WINS. And a big reason why he wins is because he takes "shoot-from-the-hip" gambles (if you will) like the one he took on that play. He uses, unorthodox lineups. Not afraid to roll the dice. More times than not, those gambles have resulted in plays like the Kukoc shot, major comebacks, and championship runs.

PEEEAAACEE!!!!!!!
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:11 PM   #45
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

In this incident, people often miss the most important thing: Kukoc is VERY CLUTCH.
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