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Old 08-16-2007, 09:21 AM   #1
RainierBeachPoet
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Default Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

most fans remember the incident in the 1994 eastern conference finals:

knicks vs bulls: game three in chicago

tied score; 1.8 seconds left

phil j writes up the play for pippen to be the decoy; kukoc to take the game winner

pippen get so angry that he isnt called upon to shoot the shot and he refuses to go into the game


i would love to hear two things:
  • for bulls fan, how did you feel and/or did this change the way you saw pippen?
  • for everyone else, what if the star of your current team did this under the same conditions, how would you feel?
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Old 08-16-2007, 09:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

*i wouldnt mind if the star player wasnt called upon to take the final shot, kukoc was a very good shooter, i probably would of done the same as phil...*

*but yerr if a player on my team, say billups, reacted like pippen did id be disgraced and embarrased and it would be very hard to keep billups among my favorite players, very hard...
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Old 08-16-2007, 09:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
most fans remember the incident in the 1994 eastern conference finals:

knicks vs bulls: game three in chicago

tied score; 1.8 seconds left

phil j writes up the play for pippen to be the decoy; kukoc to take the game winner

pippen get so angry that he isnt called upon to shoot the shot and he refuses to go into the game


i would love to hear two things:
  • for bulls fan, how did you feel and/or did this change the way you saw pippen?
  • for everyone else, what if the star of your current team did this under the same conditions, how would you feel?
i can't speak for other bulls fans, but i was immediately reminded of how scottie didn't want the pressure early in his career. i thought it was a bizarre 180 degree spin for him, and i was really out of character in general for him since he's such a team guy. it bothered me at first, but he was one of my faves since he first entered the league, so i got over it quick. wouldn't have been held against him as much if toni had missed that shot either.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

I'm not a Bulls fan but to this day I still think that was the moment that made me say "Phil Jackson is not the genius I was told he was". Pippen was the hands down best player on the floor throughout that whole series. He did pretty much as he pleased offensively. Kukoc on the other hand literally could only get baskets that others created for him.

I understand about running decoy plays but for Pippen to carry your team all season and not get the call in that situation it's almost like you are showing no appreciation for what he's done up to that point.


I'm all for decoy plays when they make sense and are drawn up well. Being that I'm a Knick fan give me a choice between Jamal Crawford attacking Manu Ginobilli off the dribble for the last shot and Eddy Curry going one on one against Duncan I'd go with Crawford. However, the play for Crawford better have David Lee cutting to the rim for a lob in case Bruce Bowen is the guy on Crawford.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Can you imagine how Pippen felt as that shot was going in? Talk about getting owned. Had Kukoc missed, the incident would have been viewed slightly differently imo (and more favorably towards Pippen, since he was the leader).

Quote:
I understand about running decoy plays but for Pippen to carry your team all season and not get the call in that situation it's almost like you are showing no appreciation for what he's done up to that point.

I agree with this, but still, you can't act that way as a star and a leader.

Last edited by Loki : 08-16-2007 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
I'm not a Bulls fan but to this day I still think that was the moment that made me say "Phil Jackson is not the genius I was told he was". Pippen was the hands down best player on the floor throughout that whole series. He did pretty much as he pleased offensively. Kukoc on the other hand literally could only get baskets that others created for him.

I understand about running decoy plays but for Pippen to carry your team all season and not get the call in that situation it's almost like you are showing no appreciation for what he's done up to that point.


I'm all for decoy plays when they make sense and are drawn up well. Being that I'm a Knick fan give me a choice between Jamal Crawford attacking Manu Ginobilli off the dribble for the last shot and Eddy Curry going one on one against Duncan I'd go with Crawford. However, the play for Crawford better have David Lee cutting to the rim for a lob in case Bruce Bowen is the guy on Crawford.

Hey moron

You DO realize that Kukoc hit the game-winning shot? Even with the disadvantage of not having the best player on the Bulls at the time (Pippen) as a decoy, as Jackson intended.

Pippen completely b*tched out, and he got PWNED even worse because Kukoc ended up making the shot. So PJ made the right call, showing some BRASS BALLS by taking a chance on a rookie Kukoc, who was not shooting a great %.

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Old 08-16-2007, 10:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
I'm not a Bulls fan but to this day I still think that was the moment that made me say "Phil Jackson is not the genius I was told he was". Pippen was the hands down best player on the floor throughout that whole series. He did pretty much as he pleased offensively. Kukoc on the other hand literally could only get baskets that others created for him.

I understand about running decoy plays but for Pippen to carry your team all season and not get the call in that situation it's almost like you are showing no appreciation for what he's done up to that point.


I'm all for decoy plays when they make sense and are drawn up well. Being that I'm a Knick fan give me a choice between Jamal Crawford attacking Manu Ginobilli off the dribble for the last shot and Eddy Curry going one on one against Duncan I'd go with Crawford. However, the play for Crawford better have David Lee cutting to the rim for a lob in case Bruce Bowen is the guy on Crawford.
quick note on decoy plays: in 2002, the wizards beat the lakers on a last second shot. everybody in the stadium knew it was coming to jordan who had already hit some very difficult shots over kobe and fox. the ball was inbounded to michael who leaned back like he was going into his fadeaway bump and spin, and jerry stackhouse (who i believe was the inbounder) cut by him, jerry's man cheated off to help mike, and mj tossed a great pass for an easy dunk and the win (kobe looked furious though i can't recall if was the one on mike or the one who dropped a step behind stack to help on mike).

that was a perfect decoy play because not only did it look like jordan was going to take the shot, if the pass to jerry hadn't been there, he was in position to get something off himself.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
So PJ made the right call, showing some BRASS BALLS by taking a chance on a rookie Kukoc, who was not shooting a great %.
Only after a guy makes it could someone possibly think that going to a poor-shooting rookie over your star for the last shot is "the right call."
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
quick note on decoy plays: in 2002, the wizards beat the lakers on a last second shot. everybody in the stadium knew it was coming to jordan who had already hit some very difficult shots over kobe and fox. the ball was inbounded to michael who leaned back like he was going into his fadeaway bump and spin, and jerry stackhouse (who i believe was the inbounder) cut by him, jerry's man cheated off to help mike, and mj tossed a great pass for an easy dunk and the win (kobe looked furious though i can't recall if was the one on mike or the one who dropped a step behind stack to help on mike).

that was a perfect decoy play because not only did it look like jordan was going to take the shot, if the pass to jerry hadn't been there, he was in position to get something off himself.



Wow...

Talk about RE-visionist HIStory!!!

Jordan wasn't even involved directly in the play. He was merely a decoy (and with Kobe guarding him as tight as possible), Michael took his black @ss to the opposite side of the paint of where Stackhouse drove in.

Stackhouse was the inbounder, yes, but the defensive miscommunication happened between Deaven George and Robert Horry. George wasn't able to stay in front of Stackhouse, who got just enough shielding from Horry's man (I belive it was Bryon Russell) as they executed a text-book Give-&-Go, with Russell handing-off to Stackhouse. Stackhouse drives in for the wide open dunk, while all Kobe can do is stare in disbelief. After the play EVERY SINGLE LAKER player on the floor (ESPECIALLY Kobe) looks over at George with a combination of complete disbelief and disguist.

Last edited by IllegalD : 08-16-2007 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
....that was a perfect decoy play because not only did it look like jordan was going to take the shot, if the pass to jerry hadn't been there, he was in position to get something off himself.
That's not a decoy as much as it is letting Mike make something positive happen and a good cut by Stack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaKF
Only after a guy makes it could someone possibly think that going to a poor-shooting rookie over your star for the last shot is "the right call."
I should PM this quote to IllegalD
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
Only after a guy makes it could someone possibly think that going to a poor-shooting rookie over your star for the last shot is "the right call."

Well guess what Einstein?

THE SHOT WENT IN!!!

So it was the RIGHT call.

And its not the FIRST TIME that PJ has made an "unorthodox" call. It's called being SMART/STRATEGIC. EVERYONE in the arena knew Pippen was getting the ball. PJ was 5 steps ahead of everyone else. Plus he knew that if the Bulls had ANY chance of advancing he would have to BOOST the young (but TALENTED) Rookie's confidence.

Pip b*tched out, Kukoc made the shot. This becomes a permanent stain (though a minor one) on Pip's otherwise outstanding career.

Even Pip realized he had basically PWNED himself:

Quote:
Although Kuko? did eventually hit the game-winner, a 23-foot fadeaway jumper, there was little celebrating to be done by the Bulls, as television cameras caught an unsmiling Phil Jackson storming out of the arena. "Scottie asked out of the play," Jackson would tell reporters moments later in the post-game interview room. Those seeking further answers found Pippen in the locker room after the game, looking shell-shocked and disoriented; when asked to confirm Jackson's statement, Pippen could only respond with "Yeah, pretty much ... We exchanged words, and I just took a seat."
Teammate Steve Kerr elaborated when recently asked to recall the event: "I was shocked," he said. "The only way to describe it was total disbelief. Here was a guy who had done so much for our team, who had been our leader all year long. He was, and still is, one of the greatest teammates I've ever had. But on that day, I think all the pressure and frustration of our season caught up with him, and he snapped." Pippen later apologized to his teammates after the incident.

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Old 08-16-2007, 11:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

*double post*
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegalD


Wow...

Talk about RE-visionist HIStory!!!

Jordan wasn't even involved directly in the play. He was merely a decoy (and with Kobe guarding him as tight as possible), Michael took his black @ss to the opposite side of the paint of where Stackhouse drove in.

Stackhouse was the inbounder, yes, but the defensive miscommunication happened between Deaven George and Robert Horry. George wasn't able to stay in front of Stackhouse, who got just enough shielding from Horry's man (I belive it was Bryon Russell) as they executed a text-book Give-&-Go, with Russell handing-off to Stackhouse. Stackhouse drives in for the wide open layup, while all Kobe can do is stare in disbelief. After the play EVERY SINGLE LAKER player on the floor (ESPECIALLY Kobe) looks over at George with a combination of complete disbelief and disguist.
that's funny because the way i described that play is exactly as i remember it. i was at a bar in boston watching on a small screen and drinking like a fish, so you're probably right, but i 100% remember the description i wrote above. hilarious.
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
that's funny because the way i described that play is exactly as i remember it. i was at a bar in boston watching on a small screen and drinking like a fish, so you're probably right, but i 100% remember the description i wrote above. hilarious.



Here's the SOBER version of the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-LmnVEXX24

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Old 08-16-2007, 11:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: Revisit: Pippen sat out the last 1.8 seconds in 1994; what if your star today?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IllegalD
Well guess what Einstein?

THE SHOT WENT IN!!!

I was sort of going to respond this myself.

This call was made by Phil Jackson. He made a call, unconventional as it might have been, and it worked out. That means he made the right call, because Phil Jackson doesn't have to prove if he is really a great coach or just some lucky punk.

Remember PJ didn't just know these players from boxscores. He worked with these players every day.
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