Taking numbers out of the equation is the first thing one must do when comparing Bryant and Jordan.
Of course -- because none of the numbers point to a favorable comparison. You take out any and all numbers because then all you're left with is assertion, and any idiot can say anything, you know. (not speaking of you personally, just saying)
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If there ever was a true "Baby Jordan" it would be Kobe. His play on the court reminds most of Jordan's game more than any player in the history of the league.
No question. And a big reason for that is because he spent countless hours studying tapes of Jordan and blatantly copying his moves and mannerisms. No shock there.
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He is not the complete player Jordan is, but that is not a short coming.
You're right, it isn't a shortcoming -- except when you're comparing them in particular. Kobe's a very well-rounded player who is also a great two-way player -- he's just not Jordan in these areas. And that's the person his groopies love to compare him to. Don't blame me.
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Many Jordan fans like to scream that "Kobe is not Jordan", but I say who is?
No perimeter player who's ever played the game. So why is there this compulsion to compare them on the part of Kobe fans, then?
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Jordan= 9.92
Bryant= 9.20
I don't necessarily disagree with those ratings as players. Thing is, the difference between players who would be rated 9.2 and 9.9 is larger than the difference between a 9.2 and an 8.5 player. The standards for greatness are magnified as you move up the totem pole.
ballhandling - kobe
shooting - kobe
ability to create- about even (slight advantage jordan)
rebounding - jordan
passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes
ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe
1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)
Jordan is the GOAT.. however he was not GOAT since day 1 like Loki argues.
The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.
kobe was not in his prime since 02. are you serious? kobe barely hit his prime last year.
2002 was the first time Kobe cracked 30 PPG. Taking his entire career into account, 2002-03 was the beginning of his prime, which continues into today.
Yet Jordan was better at getting where he wanted to go on the court and had a far better assist:TO ratio.
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shooting - kobe
'87 Jordan was a better 12-17 foot shooter than Kobe. '88 Jordan better out to 18 feet. '89 Jordan as good or better out to 19 feet.
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ability to create- about even (slight advantage jordan)
"Slight, he says." Jordan's game -- to say nothing of his skills -- was much more conducive to playmaking and creating for others. Easier to create opportunities for teammates when you're driving and dishing than when you're launching 24-footers.
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rebounding - jordan
Yup.
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passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes
Why do you think that Kobe is as skilled a passer as Jordan was? Dude botches many, many 2-on-1 and 3-on-1 fastbreaks with bad passes. Many. Needed about 17 tries to get a chest pass through a tire from about 13 feet away.
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ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe
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1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)
Umm, Jordan won DPOY in '88 and that wasn't just due to passing lane defense (he didn't even make second team defense in '87 when he recorded 220+ steals and 120+ blocks; his individual defense is what changed between '87 and '88). Then he finished 3rd in DPOY voting in '89. What's Kobe done again? Yeah...exactly.
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Jordan is the GOAT.. however he was not GOAT since day 1 like Loki argues.
Commentators on playoff games from 1990 say, and I quote, "he is possibly the greatest player to ever play the game."
1990. I don't agree with that statement being made at that time, but it was out there.
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The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.
You're insane. This Kobe, as great as he is, is nowhere near as dominant as '87-'90 Jordan. Nowhere near it. Go re-read my breakdown on the previous page. Take a look at those numbers. Take a look at the numbers relative to the league averages. Kobe isn't nearly as dominant as Jordan was.
passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe 1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)
"CLEARLY better".... as if Jordan didn't hit any clutch shots or single handedly beat teams until 1991 or something...
That's some ridiculous sh*t there....
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The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.
Do you not remember how fast Jordan used to be in the 80s? Dude had Iverson like quickness. There is no way Kobe coulda kept up with pre-prime Jordan either.
The only version of Jordan the current Kobe would beat is the the rookie, second year, and the 98 version of Jordan. You're kidding yourself if you think a third year Jordan (1987), would get "destroyed by current Kobe".
Yeah man -- the only difference is their hand size.
its not that funny dude he does make a decent point i have pritty large hands and i find it very easy to go at the ring because i can leave the ball in one hand if i couldnt do that id have to rely on my jumpshot which aitn to bad but i mean its alot easier to make lay ups then jumpshots
note: im not saying kobe would be beta than MJ if he had bigger hand sim jus makign the point that its easier if u do
I was watching a Kobe interview from a year or so ago, and he was asked if there was one thing he could change about himself, what would it be? He said he wished he had bigger hands. But then he said he would never shoot and would just dunk all the time and finish at the rim. Do any of you think the only difference between Jordan and Kobe is hand size? Could Kobe have quickly surpassed MJ were his hands just a bit bigger? He said he has trouble palming the ball and moving it around like Dr. J, which is why he elected to perfect his jumper.
Note: I'm not a Kobe homer. I'm a very objective person.
Obviously you're F'd Up and didn't roll with 90's!!! You need to go back to the NFL.
you forgot to mention kobe never played with 2 top 50 players beside him (pippen a top 3 SF of all time and rodman , one of the greatest PF of all time)
yeah, he played with Shaq who's better than both Pippen and Rodman. He also played with a past their prime but still highly effective (barring injury) duo of Payton and Malone, who are respectively one of the best point guards and power fowards of all time.
Yeah, 1990 Jordan was so raw and weak. Then he suddenly ate some magic beans over the offseason and in 1991 became the best player in the game by far. :rollingeyes:
No one here would believe Kobe could beat a 1990 Jordan, a 1989 Jordan, hell maybe not even a 1987 Jordan. Only you and dizzle continue to spew crap like that and say it in that matter-of-factly way like you guys are right.
dizzle, i think you left yourself open to loki's insane jordan knowledge by giving too large a year comparison. jordan won an mvp in 88 while magic was at his prime. and he actually put up better number on a better team in 89. watch this video (it's the game against cleveland where he hits "the shot").
his game is insanely complete already. his only weakness defensively is a need to help on price all game and some foul trouble that grant picks up that has his eye fixed on protecting the rim rather than chasing ron and ehlo like he should have. he does the majority of the playmaking. gets the big boards. hits shots from all over the place and even shows off his rudamentary (and already unstoppable) post game.
if you're only worried about 85, 86, and 87 then i think kobe's the better player. michael didn't trust his teammates at all back then and his range was extremely limited.
also i don't understand why we're limiting the comparison to just the last few years of kobe's career. he took 20+ shots a game a few times next to shaq. he actually shot more than shaq did in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. in fact in 2001 and 2003 kobe (still playing with shaq now) took more shots than jordan did in his most productive year 1989. kobe's 2003 fga/g are actually also higher than 2 mvp / finals mvp years that jordan had.
And yet for all his "experience," Kobe can't shoot 47% for even a single season; can't finish first in EFF or PER for even a single season; can't play well in the second halves of playoff games etc.
Kobe Bryant: so overrated it's not funny. Seriously, dude is beyond overrated. He's incredible, but people make him into something he's never been -- a player as dominant as Jordan was. Jordan was on an entirely different level than Kobe.
Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?
You take out any and all numbers because then all you're left with is assertion, and any idiot can say anything, you know. (not speaking of you personally, just saying)
