Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-12-2007, 02:37 AM   #31
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLeagueWannabe
Taking numbers out of the equation is the first thing one must do when comparing Bryant and Jordan.

Of course -- because none of the numbers point to a favorable comparison. You take out any and all numbers because then all you're left with is assertion, and any idiot can say anything, you know. (not speaking of you personally, just saying)

Quote:
If there ever was a true "Baby Jordan" it would be Kobe. His play on the court reminds most of Jordan's game more than any player in the history of the league.

No question. And a big reason for that is because he spent countless hours studying tapes of Jordan and blatantly copying his moves and mannerisms. No shock there.

Quote:
He is not the complete player Jordan is, but that is not a short coming.

You're right, it isn't a shortcoming -- except when you're comparing them in particular. Kobe's a very well-rounded player who is also a great two-way player -- he's just not Jordan in these areas. And that's the person his groopies love to compare him to. Don't blame me.

Quote:
Many Jordan fans like to scream that "Kobe is not Jordan", but I say who is?

No perimeter player who's ever played the game. So why is there this compulsion to compare them on the part of Kobe fans, then?

Quote:
Jordan= 9.92
Bryant= 9.20

I don't necessarily disagree with those ratings as players. Thing is, the difference between players who would be rated 9.2 and 9.9 is larger than the difference between a 9.2 and an 8.5 player. The standards for greatness are magnified as you move up the totem pole.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 02:55 AM   #32
Dizzle-2k7
Go Spurs Go
 
Dizzle-2k7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Third Coast, Texas
Posts: 4,726
Dizzle-2k7 is considered somewhat coolDizzle-2k7 is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

pre-prime jordan vs current prime kobe

ballhandling - kobe
shooting - kobe
ability to create- about even (slight advantage jordan)
rebounding - jordan
passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes
ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe
1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)

Jordan is the GOAT.. however he was not GOAT since day 1 like Loki argues.

The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.
Dizzle-2k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 02:57 AM   #33
Dizzle-2k7
Go Spurs Go
 
Dizzle-2k7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Third Coast, Texas
Posts: 4,726
Dizzle-2k7 is considered somewhat coolDizzle-2k7 is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
Kobe's prime(2002-03-present):


29.7 PPG/5.9 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG- 44.7 FG%, 34.8 3 PT %, 84.6 FT%. Team record of 227-183(.554)


Jordan(1988-89 and prior):


31.1 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.5 APG/2.7 SPG/1.2 BPG- 50.5 FG%, 18.6 3 PT%, 84.7 FT%. Team record of 205-205(.500)

kobe was not in his prime since 02. are you serious? kobe barely hit his prime last year.
Dizzle-2k7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 02:59 AM   #34
White Chocolate
5-time NBA All-Star
 
White Chocolate's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,621
White Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputationWhite Chocolate has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
kobe was not in his prime since 02. are you serious? kobe barely hit his prime last year.


2002 was the first time Kobe cracked 30 PPG. Taking his entire career into account, 2002-03 was the beginning of his prime, which continues into today.
White Chocolate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 03:06 AM   #35
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
pre-prime jordan vs current prime kobe

ballhandling - kobe

Yet Jordan was better at getting where he wanted to go on the court and had a far better assist:TO ratio.

Quote:
shooting - kobe

'87 Jordan was a better 12-17 foot shooter than Kobe. '88 Jordan better out to 18 feet. '89 Jordan as good or better out to 19 feet.

Quote:
ability to create- about even (slight advantage jordan)



"Slight, he says." Jordan's game -- to say nothing of his skills -- was much more conducive to playmaking and creating for others. Easier to create opportunities for teammates when you're driving and dishing than when you're launching 24-footers.

Quote:
rebounding - jordan

Yup.

Quote:
passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes

Why do you think that Kobe is as skilled a passer as Jordan was? Dude botches many, many 2-on-1 and 3-on-1 fastbreaks with bad passes. Many. Needed about 17 tries to get a chest pass through a tire from about 13 feet away.

Quote:
ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe



Quote:
1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)

Umm, Jordan won DPOY in '88 and that wasn't just due to passing lane defense (he didn't even make second team defense in '87 when he recorded 220+ steals and 120+ blocks; his individual defense is what changed between '87 and '88). Then he finished 3rd in DPOY voting in '89. What's Kobe done again? Yeah...exactly.

Quote:
Jordan is the GOAT.. however he was not GOAT since day 1 like Loki argues.

Commentators on playoff games from 1990 say, and I quote, "he is possibly the greatest player to ever play the game."

1990. I don't agree with that statement being made at that time, but it was out there.


Quote:
The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.

You're insane. This Kobe, as great as he is, is nowhere near as dominant as '87-'90 Jordan. Nowhere near it. Go re-read my breakdown on the previous page. Take a look at those numbers. Take a look at the numbers relative to the league averages. Kobe isn't nearly as dominant as Jordan was.

Last edited by Loki : 08-12-2007 at 03:09 AM.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 03:21 AM   #36
EricForman
Good college starter
 
EricForman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,347
EricForman has decent reputationEricForman has decent reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
pre-prime jordan vs current prime kobe

passing - even in terms of skill, though jordan collected more dimes
ability to win games and takeover - clearly kobe
1on1 defense - clearly kobe (jordan was great at playing the lanes , not really 1on1 d in his early years)





"CLEARLY better".... as if Jordan didn't hit any clutch shots or single handedly beat teams until 1991 or something...

That's some ridiculous sh*t there....

Quote:
The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either. Jordan was very raw in his early years, and the current Prime Kobe has mastered the art of basketball. He would destroy young MJ in the Post and on the Wing with his arsenal of moves.

Do you not remember how fast Jordan used to be in the 80s? Dude had Iverson like quickness. There is no way Kobe coulda kept up with pre-prime Jordan either.

The only version of Jordan the current Kobe would beat is the the rookie, second year, and the 98 version of Jordan. You're kidding yourself if you think a third year Jordan (1987), would get "destroyed by current Kobe".
EricForman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 04:14 AM   #37
sick_brah07
National High School Star
 
sick_brah07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,082
sick_brah07 has decent reputationsick_brah07 has decent reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki


Yeah man -- the only difference is their hand size.


its not that funny dude he does make a decent point i have pritty large hands and i find it very easy to go at the ring because i can leave the ball in one hand if i couldnt do that id have to rely on my jumpshot which aitn to bad but i mean its alot easier to make lay ups then jumpshots

note: im not saying kobe would be beta than MJ if he had bigger hand sim jus makign the point that its easier if u do
sick_brah07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 04:24 AM   #38
blazerfan22
Retro is in
 
blazerfan22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,264
blazerfan22 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Make It Rain
I was watching a Kobe interview from a year or so ago, and he was asked if there was one thing he could change about himself, what would it be? He said he wished he had bigger hands. But then he said he would never shoot and would just dunk all the time and finish at the rim. Do any of you think the only difference between Jordan and Kobe is hand size? Could Kobe have quickly surpassed MJ were his hands just a bit bigger? He said he has trouble palming the ball and moving it around like Dr. J, which is why he elected to perfect his jumper.

Note: I'm not a Kobe homer. I'm a very objective person.



Obviously you're F'd Up and didn't roll with 90's!!! You need to go back to the NFL.
blazerfan22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 06:13 AM   #39
wally_world
M0derator
 
wally_world's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dancing with Miley
Posts: 8,506
wally_world has decent reputationwally_world has decent reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

yeah... and he can start wearing boxers instead of briefs cuz MJ have better footwork while wearing boxers...
wally_world is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:05 AM   #40
Poseidon
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,377
Poseidon has decent reputationPoseidon has decent reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
The Current Prime Kobe is better then Pre-prime Jordan. It shouldnt be a debate. Its nothing to get mad about either.

No doubt about this.

Current Kobe would school '85-'90 Jordan.

You can't teach experience.
Poseidon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:13 AM   #41
WADE MONEY
I hit open jumpers.
 
WADE MONEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,203
WADE MONEY has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle-2k7
you forgot to mention kobe never played with 2 top 50 players beside him (pippen a top 3 SF of all time and rodman , one of the greatest PF of all time)

yeah, he played with Shaq who's better than both Pippen and Rodman. He also played with a past their prime but still highly effective (barring injury) duo of Payton and Malone, who are respectively one of the best point guards and power fowards of all time.

You fail.
WADE MONEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:19 AM   #42
WADE MONEY
I hit open jumpers.
 
WADE MONEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,203
WADE MONEY has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
28.2 PPG + 22.7 + 37.1 + 35 + 32.5= 155.5/5= 31.1 PPG

6.5 RPG + 3.6 + 5.2 + 5.5 + 8= 28.8/5= 5.76 RPG

5.9 APG + 2.9 + 4.6 + 5.9 + 8= 27.3/5= 5.46 APG

2.4 SPG + 2.1 + 2.9 + 3.2 + 2.9= 13.5/5= 2.7 SPG

.8 BPG + 1.2 + 1.5 + 1.6 + .8= 5.9/5= 1.18 BPG

.515 FG% + .457 + .482 + .535 + .538= 2.527/5= 50.54 FG%

.173 3 PT% + .167 + .182 + .132 + .276= .93/5= 18.6 3 PT%

.845 FT% + .840 + .857 + .841 + .850= 4.233/5= 84.66 FT%


Nope Loki, my numbers are correct.



One of the dumbest posts made in the history of this forum.

You actually thought Jordan averaged 22/4/3 for a full season, in between seasons of averaging 28/7/6 and 37/5/5?
WADE MONEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:29 AM   #43
EricForman
Good college starter
 
EricForman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,347
EricForman has decent reputationEricForman has decent reputation
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon
No doubt about this.

Current Kobe would school '85-'90 Jordan.

You can't teach experience.

Yeah, 1990 Jordan was so raw and weak. Then he suddenly ate some magic beans over the offseason and in 1991 became the best player in the game by far. :rollingeyes:

No one here would believe Kobe could beat a 1990 Jordan, a 1989 Jordan, hell maybe not even a 1987 Jordan. Only you and dizzle continue to spew crap like that and say it in that matter-of-factly way like you guys are right.
EricForman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:41 AM   #44
dejordan
Mars Blackmon Lives!
 
dejordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,322
dejordan has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

dizzle, i think you left yourself open to loki's insane jordan knowledge by giving too large a year comparison. jordan won an mvp in 88 while magic was at his prime. and he actually put up better number on a better team in 89. watch this video (it's the game against cleveland where he hits "the shot").

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...7B8728A476F202

his game is insanely complete already. his only weakness defensively is a need to help on price all game and some foul trouble that grant picks up that has his eye fixed on protecting the rim rather than chasing ron and ehlo like he should have. he does the majority of the playmaking. gets the big boards. hits shots from all over the place and even shows off his rudamentary (and already unstoppable) post game.

if you're only worried about 85, 86, and 87 then i think kobe's the better player. michael didn't trust his teammates at all back then and his range was extremely limited.

also i don't understand why we're limiting the comparison to just the last few years of kobe's career. he took 20+ shots a game a few times next to shaq. he actually shot more than shaq did in 2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004. in fact in 2001 and 2003 kobe (still playing with shaq now) took more shots than jordan did in his most productive year 1989. kobe's 2003 fga/g are actually also higher than 2 mvp / finals mvp years that jordan had.
dejordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2007, 11:51 AM   #45
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Kobe: One thing to change about him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon
No doubt about this.

Current Kobe would school '85-'90 Jordan.

You can't teach experience.

L...M...A...O


And yet for all his "experience," Kobe can't shoot 47% for even a single season; can't finish first in EFF or PER for even a single season; can't play well in the second halves of playoff games etc.


Kobe Bryant: so overrated it's not funny. Seriously, dude is beyond overrated. He's incredible, but people make him into something he's never been -- a player as dominant as Jordan was. Jordan was on an entirely different level than Kobe.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:08 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy