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Old 08-11-2007, 06:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Oh, teh Offseason.
And you shall burn in hell if you take this as a vote for Kobe.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

jordan....

the only ppl saying kobe are the ones too young to remember jordan's 88 season and what he did
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono90
jordan....

the only ppl saying kobe are the ones too young to remember jordan's 88 season and what he did

Agreed. Or basically anyone who says Kobe is beacuse they have at most been watching NBA ball for 6-8 years. If they have been watching it for longer, this thread wouldn't exist because it's such an obvious answer that it is Jordan.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono90
jordan....

the only ppl saying kobe are the ones too young to remember jordan's 88 season and what he did

Nobodys saying Kobe...
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono90
the only ppl saying kobe are the ones too young to remember jordan's 88 season and what he did


It's not fair to judge by one season, but in all honesty, how often has Kobe averaged 35 PPG on 53% FG shooting?
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Don't the people starting these threads get tried of it. God how many times do you want to argue something that isnt' arguable.



Jordan end thread.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Here are a couple of posts of mine on this topic from another board that should let you know where I stand:


No question Kobe's played his best ball the past couple of seasons; yet he still pales in comparison. Here are Kobe's numbers from the past 3 seasons since he's been the first option (sorry, but I'm not going to act as if the 2005 season never happened like many Kobe fans do) and Jordan's 3 years from age 25-28:


Kobe:

31.5 pts
5.6 reb
5.3 ast
1.5 stl
.6 blk
44.9% FG (.3% below league average during that span)

26.6 EFF (one 10th, one 5th, and one 2nd place finish; 5.1 EFF above league average

25.8 PER (one 8th, one 3rd, and one 5th place finish; an average of 2.1 PER above 10th place PER finisher in that span)

113 ORtg (6 above league average)

108 DRtg (2 above league average; N.B. - this is bad)

Net O/DRtg: +4 above league average


Jordan:

32.5 pts
7.0 reb
6.6 ast
2.8 stl
.8 blk
53.4% FG (5.8% above league average during that span)

34.8 EFF (two 1st place and one 2nd place finish; 10.6 EFF above league average)

31.3 PER (three 1st place finishes; an average of 8.6 PER above 10th place PER finisher in that span)

124 ORtg (16 above league average)

104 DRtg (4 below league average)

Net O/DRtg: +20 above league average


So yeah...draw your own conclusions. Kobe's awesome, but it's not really as close as some people would like to make it seem. No matter where you look there are sizeable disparities between them. Also note that the only reason Kobe's EFF is as good as it is relative to his peers is because he plays significantly more minutes than Jordan did (2 more mpg on average than Jordan during the years in question); this is reflected in the minute-adjusted PER values. Kobe's 40.9 mpg vs. Jordan's 38.9 mpg does make a difference, believe it or not; for instance, here are Jordan's numbers taken at 40.9 mpg and Kobe's numbers again:


25-28 yr old Jordan per 40.9 mpg:

34.2 pts
7.4 reb
7.0 ast
3.0 stl
.9 blk
53.4% FG


25-28 yr old Kobe per 40.9 mpg:

31.5 pts
5.6 reb
5.3 ast
1.5 stl
.6 blk
44.9% FG


So...yeah. Let's please end this "discussion." Kobe's good enough on his own -- no need to try and make him into something he's not and never really has been.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Kobe's best season (2006) doesn't even crack Jordan's top 8 seasons statistically. I have to laugh at the poster who said that it's basically a "pick 'em" between the two, and that any difference is attributable to the quality of their teammates. This ignores the fact that Jordan was significantly better than Kobe even before he got a good team around him. It's just a joke, really. I'd have thought my long post would have destroyed the will of all Kobe groopies, but this guy is apparently a special case. So here's what I'll do. We'll take Kobe's best year (2006) and compare it to Jordan's 7th or 8th best statistical season. We'll take per 40 minute numbers to simplify calculations:


2006 Kobe per 40:

34.6 pts
5.2 reb
4.4 ast
1.8 stl
.4 blk
45.0% FG

28.0 PER
27.8 EFF
114 ORtg
105 DRtg
Net O/DRtg vs. league average: +9


1987 Jordan per 40:

37.1 pts
5.2 reb
4.6 ast
2.9 stl
1.5 blk
48.2% FG

29.8 PER
31.9 EFF
117 ORtg
104 DRtg
Net O/DRtg vs. league average: +13


And this was Jordan's 7th or 8th worst statistical season, and it's still better than Kobe's best in every respect. So imagine Kobe stringing together 7-8 seasons in a row as good or better than his 2006 season and you'll have an idea of the level Jordan was at. Jordan's best Net O/DRtg relative to league average was a staggering +24. Kobe's best season was +12 (and it was in 2000; in 2006, widely considered Kobe's best season, he was only +9).

For comparison, Jordan had 10 seasons better than +13, including 8 seasons between +17-24. In fact, Jordan's average net O/DRtg upon retirement in 1998 (11 full seasons) was +18.1 -- and Kobe's never even had a single season better than 67% of that.

Last edited by Loki : 08-11-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Kobe is a better offensive player. I said it.. and What?

* expecting Jordan gr00pies to come at full force*
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
Kobe is a better offensive player. I said it.. and What?

* expecting Jordan gr00pies to come at full force*

why don't you try and back it up with some facts
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Does the person seriously asking this question have Down's Syndrome or Autism? You decide.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleNader
why don't you try and back it up with some facts

Why don't you prove me wrong?
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
Why don't you prove me wrong?

You made the original claim, so the burden of proof is on you. Please provide 1 fact as to how Kobe is a better offensive player than Jordan.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
Kobe is a better offensive player. I said it.. and What?

* expecting Jordan gr00pies to come at full force*
No one gives a fu*k if you say anything, why not back it up. I'm not a jordan groopie I just speak the truth.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleNader
You made the original claim, so the burden of proof is on you. Please provide 1 fact as to how Kobe is a better offensive player than Jordan.

Why should I? I made the claim so it should be up to you to prove me wrong. I could easily say 81. What would you say?
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: Kobe or Jordan? You decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe24
Why don't you prove me wrong?

You were pretty much proved wrong before you typed it. Check the post above yours.:)
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