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Old 08-07-2007, 04:46 AM   #16
Y2Gezee
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

In this race that many assume will be 4/5/6 I think it ultimately will come down to which team stays the healthiest. All 3 teams are loaded with talent, all 3 teams have coaches that have led teams to the finals and won big. And really aside from winning consistently in the playoffs can soon be considered amongst the 3 Western elites as far as the talent they have in comparison.

Generally I think Denver is the more talented of the trio of teams, Houston is close.

Utah sorta overachieved, they don't have a superstar type player, and I think got lucky with injuries and when they occured. Both Boozer and AK are injury plagued(2 of their best 3 players), and both were injured for extented periods last year, and again they overachieved. And people put too much faith in them getting to the WCF only to get creamed. They beat Houston because (besides the obvious choking) they didn't have enough scoring options. This year they get Wells (who probably will come in better shape and play) and Francis. Then ofcourse they were gonna beat the Warriors considering the Warriors had no rebounders.

Thing about Houston is they're getting a new style and implementing new players this year, but should still do great nontheless.

Denver was developing chemistry late last year, and returning everybody, only thing new is Kenyon.

But again, like last year's NW division, this race will be chosen by injuries and missing players.

Last edited by Y2Gezee : 08-07-2007 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:58 AM   #17
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

4. Utah
5. Houston
6. Denver

People forget how well Denver was playing later on in the season, when AI and Melo were clicking and they were getting decent bench contributions from Kleiza, though Karl has been a subpar coach for them.

Houston REALLY disappointed me in the playoffs, and I don't see how more perimeter players is going to help their cause. They need a good rebounder out of the power forward position, I'd imagine all of the Houston fans were frustrated when they could not pick up a rebound in the clutch of game 7 against Utah.

Deron is getting better, Utah is getting better, but they are young, and still unpredictable, and still probably going to play a midget at the 2. AK47 played a lot better when Utah played up tempo (GS series), I'd expect a little style change in order to make AK a more effective player.

Its still a close race between the three.

Utah (54-28)
Houston (53-29)
Denver (50-32)

Expect a Denver v SA rematch as well as a Utah v Houston rematch.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
JVG's style of play actually HURT the rockets. When Yao Ming went down with injury and McGrady came back....... Gundy was sort of lost, his half court system was built on throwing it in to the big man. The Rockets had to find a way to get easier baskets and the answer was to start running a little bit. Gundy turned to Tmac and let him pick up the tempo, then all of a sudden Tmac was the Tmac of old, and playing himself into the MVP discussion. Did the Rockets D suffer....... nope, because the pressure that they put on teams with scoring more points played into their hands.

When you have players like Battier, Hayes, and yes even Yao (the guy may not be one of the best defenders, but when your 7'6, your going to alter shots and take up space in the paint by presence alone) it doesn't matter what system your running, your defense is going to be good. All the up tempo did was improve all the offensive games of the role players. It spread the floor for Head, Alston, and Battier to knock down 3's, the Rockets would shoot teams straight out of the gym with their 3pt shooters. It made Chuck Hayes a much better player and Tmac a much better facilitator, his ast. #s were on par with top PGs in the league.

Then comes the playoffs and Yao Ming is back with the team......... JVG has his security blanket back and he totally forgets the style of play that kept the Rockets in contention when Yao was out. JVG puts a halt to the offense, goes back to the grind it out style... The role players struggled, because the easy baskets were gone, the 3 point shooting was gone, because the spacing was terrible, and once again the Rockets lose a 7 game series in the first round.

Heres a stat for yall to think about......

The Rockets went over 100 points 30 times last season.

When the Rockets scored more than 100 points in a game, they had a ovrl recored of 30-3, In the playoffs the Rockets did not reach 100 points once....

This did not fall on deaf ears with the F.O. They watched the team get out and play up tempo, pick up fast break points, and win. They also saw a complete oppisite style in the playoffs, thats why JVG was let go and Adelman was brought in.

I actually think JVGs style is what kept them afloat. Their defense kept them in every game, just like it did in the playoffs when the only 2 scorers were basically Mac and Yao. Then those low scoring games gave one of their superstars the chance to do enough to win. Now there are some things they should've done better as far as offensive system, but still...
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:06 AM   #19
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2Gezee
I actually think JVGs style is what kept them afloat. Their defense kept them in every game, just like it did in the playoffs when the only 2 scorers were basically Mac and Yao. Then those low scoring games gave one of their superstars the chance to do enough to win. Now there are some things they should've done better as far as offensive system, but still...

JVG's defense is vastly overrated. For one its not even a real defense, its just limiting posessions.......... thats not really defense. Houston's biggest defensive improvement came when the Rockets traded for Battier, go look it up. Battier was the reason for Houston's defensive improvement from 05/06 to 06/07. Don't really remember the stats, but I just remember Houston's defensive catagories went through the roof with Battier on the floor.

Last I checked..................Battier is still here and so is Chuck Hayes. JVG does preach hustle, which was beneficial, but like I said Battier and Hayes (A guy that hustles his ass off and plays like, if he doesn't, he'll be out of the league before the next game) are still here.

All JVG did was make Houston extremely predictable, one-dimensional, easy to gameplan, and easy as hell to stop. Speaking of gameplaning, JVG did not know how to make mid series adjustments, I've seen it twice now. Rockets up 2-0.......... opposing coach makes adjustment....... JVG has no answer.

One of the best defenses is a good offense and thats something JVG NEVER RAN, so in that sense........ HIS DEFENSE SUCKED.

You keep on saying his defense kept them in every game, like every game we played last year was a nail biter, When the Rockets were moving the ball and again scoring over a 100, they were blowing teams out.

Last edited by TMac&Luther : 08-07-2007 at 05:13 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 05:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

The Spurs run the perfect system, they know when to press (half-court) and they know when to run. Houston has the personnel to do the same, hopefully Adelman will pull out some tape and follow suit.
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

They won't be the same defense without JVG, and like I said they did need some better offense. But limiting possessions, defense, whatever you would like to call it is what kept them afloat. Afloat meaning with one of their superstars out.
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

D-Will (3pts) > AI (2pts) > Francis (1pt)
T-Mac (3pts) > Melo (2pts) > AK47 (1pt)
Boozer = Yao (3pts) > Camby (2pts)
Battier = Okur = Nene (2pts each)
JR Smith (2pts) > Matt Harpring (1pt) > Mike James (1pt)
Evans (2pts) > Hayes = Millsap (1pt each)

Jazz - 11pts
Rockets - 11pts
Nuggets - 12pts

STANDINGS
Nuggets
Jazz
Rockets

reason... Nuggets the best team among these 3 teams... and Jazz has a better coach (prehaps the best in the league)... they have also proven to be able to beat Houston in a 7-game series...
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Old 08-07-2007, 09:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

That really is one of the weirder ways of ranking three teams, but you've got to factor in team chemistry and how successful they can be. Look at the Knicks, they are probabbly more talented than the Magic but it was the latter who made the playoffs, not the knicks. Even though on paper the Nuggets seem better, I still say the JAzz and the Rockets are better than the Nuggets.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

i don't think jazz overachieved last year as someone said. in fact, i think they can be even better this season. (i don't say they'll go further, seeding will be most important whether they can get to the finals again)

but, their only significant loss is fisher who was playing like crap in playoffs anyways. if boozer stays injury-free, there's no way he'll regress from last year, dude should be entering his prime now. d-will had a breakthrough season and can only improve even more. and kirilenko can hardly be worse than last season, all chances are that he'll bounce back at least partly. morris almond is a sleeper IMO. and he will get plenty of open looks from boozer and deron.

houston and denver have more talent on paper, but chemistry-wise utah is better, at least until we see how will rockets adapt to rick adelman's coaching.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:47 AM   #25
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklayer
I'd have to agree with Darsh. I know Houston has a couple of superstars and you could certainly argue they acquired more depth this year (especially at the guard spots) but they still have an unproven power forward and a history of injury. While defense won them a ton of games last season, I think the key is how Adelman's offensive style pans out. They may score a ton of points, but at that pace, so can the other team. I think JVG's grind-it-out style actually helped them win a few more than we realize.
What do you mean by unproven? You mean Scola? He's primarily in there to hustle, get the rebounds, do what the team offers him to do, not be the 'go-to-guy' on offense. Similar to Hayes is a somewhat way, but much better all-around talent.

Quote:
So, Utah (55 wins), Denver (50 wins), Houston (49 wins)
Go with your own trend -- or with any other Nugget fan(s) on here. The Rockets aren't finishing with a record below 50 wins, guaranteed.

Anyway, mine goes like this.

4. Utah
5. Houston
6. Denver
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

scola is much better offensive player than defensive. and he isn't exactly a "hustler" type, although he rebounds decently.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:54 AM   #27
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
scola is much better offensive player than defensive. and he isn't exactly a "hustler" type, although he rebounds decently.
Is he more devoted on offense? Never saw much of him, but i've been hearing so much comparisons. One being Andy Varejao, so I toook it from there and considered him a defensive specialist.

He get's garbage points (mostly off of o. rebounds) so yeah, consider that a somewhat "hustle" player, I guess.
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharas
scola is much better offensive player than defensive. and he isn't exactly a "hustler" type, although he rebounds decently.

Hayes is the perfect back up for him.

The Rockets are going to be so sick, I hope they can ship Alston out for Malik Rose or someone.

CT: Yao Ming/ Dikemebe Mutumbo/ Jake Tsakalidis
PF: Luis Scola/ Chuck Hayes/ Carl Landry
SF: Shane Battier/ Bonzi Wells/ Steve Novak
SG: Tracy McGrady/ Luther Head/ Kirk Snyder
PG: Mike James/ Steve Francis/ Aaron Brooks
Mailk Rose?
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudge
Is he more devoted on offense? Never saw much of him, but i've been hearing so much comparisons. One being Andy Varejao, so I toook it from there and considered him a defensive specialist.

He get's garbage points (mostly off of o. rebounds) so yeah, consider that a somewhat "hustle" player, I guess.

whoever you heard that from, he doesn't know what's he speaking about.

scola is primarily an offensive guy, good strength and decent mobility, primarily a low post scorer with great moves. decent mid range shot also but he prefers playing back-to-the-basket. decent rebounder but not a great one-on-one defender.

as different from varejao as it gets.
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:01 AM   #30
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Default Re: Western Division: The race between the Nugs, Jazz and Rockets.

Ehh, come to think of it, we need a fudgin' Center now. Both Deke and Jake are fudgin' Free Agents and I doubt any of them are coming back, though I wish Deke did.

Lost our chances of signing Singleton.

Melvin Ely's still in the market.. Should lead to something. Morey should engage in offering him part of the MLE.

Quote:
whoever you heard that from, he doesn't know what's he speaking about.

scola is primarily an offensive guy, good strength and decent mobility, primarily a low post scorer with great moves. decent mid range shot also but he prefers playing back-to-the-basket. decent rebounder but not a great one-on-one defender.

as different from varejao as it gets.
Gotcha.
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