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Old 07-30-2007, 04:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Jason Collins is at #28.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
you say the system is flawed, yet you use it to support your argument? Just look at some of the players that are on the list.

I used it to disprove the notion that, based on that metric alone, there is any sort of equivalency between Jordan and Kobe. There isn't. It doesn't make the metric valid in either case. My larger point was about how Kobe could get first-team honors when he comes up woefully short in every known defensive metric or stat.


I guess, just like in all other cases (such as when wondering why Kobe can't lead the league or finish top 2 in EFF/PER, or why he can't shoot 47%), Kobe's greatness defies to any sort of objective numbers. He's just that good. And that's that. :)
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
I used it to disprove the notion that, based on that metric alone, there is any sort of equivalency between Jordan and Kobe. There isn't. It doesn't make the metric valid in either case. My larger point was about how Kobe could get first-team honors when he comes up woefully short in every known defensive metric or stat.


I guess, just like in all other cases (such as when wondering why Kobe can't lead the league or finish top 2 in EFF/PER, or why he can't shoot 47%), Kobe's greatness defies to any sort of objective numbers. He's just that good. And that's that. :)

as far as I am aware noone said Kobe compared to Jordan defensively. SOmeone just mentioned Jordan was not making the top 50 list. Didn't concern Kobe, just the obvious flaws of that formula.

And I think we settled the argument about Kobe's scoring and efficiency already :) Kobe is indeed one of the most efficient scorers in history, but let's not make this into a Kobe thread more than it needs to be.

Last edited by Brunch@Five : 07-30-2007 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon Vendetta
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_active.html

Active Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating

Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating: Season / Career / Active / Season-by-Season

Click on the Player for career statistics and accomplishments.

Note: Defensive Rating available since 1977-78 in NBA and since 1973-74 in ABA.

Minimum requirements
Name DRtg
1 Ben Wallace 93.3
2 Tim Duncan 93.7
3 Marcus Camby 97.2
4 Jermaine O'Neal 98.4
5 Yao Ming 98.6
6 Malik Rose 98.7
7 Kenyon Martin 98.9
8 Dikembe Mutombo 99.1
9 Shawn Marion 99.2
10 Alonzo Mourning 99.3
11 Kevin Garnett 99.5
12 Jeff Foster 99.5
13 Kelvin Cato 99.8
14 Tyson Chandler 100.0
15 Andrei Kirilenko 100.1
16 Rasho Nesterovic 100.4
17 Shaquille O'Neal 100.5
18 Theo Ratliff 100.8
19 Chris Webber 100.8
20 Rasheed Wallace 100.9
21 Jason Kidd 101.0
22 Robert Horry 101.0
23 Kurt Thomas 101.1
24 Ron Artest 101.3
25 Bonzi Wells 101.4
26 Bruce Bowen 101.7
27 Bo Outlaw 101.7
28 Jason Collins 101.7
29 Tony Parker 101.9
30 P.J. Brown 101.9
31 Aaron McKie 102.0
32 Jamaal Magloire 102.1
33 Jamaal Tinsley 102.2
34 Richard Jefferson 102.2
35 Austin Croshere 102.3
36 Zydrunas Ilgauskas 102.3
37 Dirk Nowitzki 102.4
38 Aaron Williams 102.4
39 Dale Davis 102.6
40 Eddie Jones 102.6
41 Paul Pierce 102.6
42 Donyell Marshall 102.8
43 Amare Stoudemire 103.0
44 Hedo Turkoglu 103.1
45 Antonio McDyess 103.1
46 LeBron James 103.1
47 Tracy McGrady 103.1
48 Kirk Hinrich 103.1
49 Baron Davis 103.2
50 Brevin Knight 103.3


Wait... no, he didn't make the top 50.

Donyell Marshall.

Um wow um wow um wow.

Don fucking yell marshall. Don fucking yell marshall. Don fucking yell marshall.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

I think that list is total sh*t.


And Kobe is a good defender, when he wants to be. Other times he's just like everyother swingman and lacks effort, therefore not that effective.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Gilbert Arenas. 60pts @ Staples Center.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon Vendetta
6 Malik Rose 98.7

#6 baby. I knew he should been played more. 12 mins 3pts/3rpg/1apg

Malik Rose is a beast he should of got all D 1st team. Thanks for the list Shogon.

dumb fuck
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:02 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

I'm convinced that these stats guys should really hate Kobe big time. I'm sure they're working day and night to find weird formulas to make Kobe look bad.

Otherwise I can't see how a great player like Kobe never once came up on top in cumulative stats like PER, EFF, Offensive Win Shares, Player Wins, Win Shares etc.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_on_nbc
I'm convinced that these stats guys should really hate Kobe big time. I'm sure they're working day and night to find weird formulas to make Kobe look bad.

Otherwise I can't see how a great player like Kobe never once came up on top in cumulative stats like PER, EFF, Offensive Win Shares, Player Wins, Win Shares etc.

It's a conspiracy against Kobe. Same reason why he's never won an MVP. :)


But never forget: it doesn't matter what any sort of objective data says -- all that matters is that you realize that Kobe is BY FAR the best player in the league, and his impact and game transcends objectivity to such a degree that it doesn't even bother to show up in stats.

Last edited by Loki : 07-30-2007 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannonball
Donyell Marshall.

Um wow um wow um wow.

Don fucking yell marshall. Don fucking yell marshall. Don fucking yell marshall.

Didn't see Donyell Marshall on the list...
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:11 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

What the heck? Kobe and Wade not there? Crap list.
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shok
Gilbert Arenas. 60pts @ Staples Center.
Mostly guarded by Parker. Later on switched from Parker to Kobe. Next game, Kobe dropped more on him while he was shut off.
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayton
Mostly guarded by Parker. Later on switched from Parker to Kobe. Next game, Kobe dropped more on him while he was shut off.

I seemed to remember Arenas having 2 good games against the Lakers last year, and in checking the scores, I thought he had... The 60 point game of course, and he also had a 37 point game... Checking the box scores though, he went 9-29 from the field and 3-15 from the three point line. I guess you can say that was being shut down. Did Bryant guard him that whole game?
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Old 07-30-2007, 08:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clayton
What the heck? Kobe and Wade not there? Crap list.
Wade? He's a great help defender...
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:14 AM   #45
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Default Re: Kobe is a good defender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
Wade? He's a great help defender...


He's a good help defender, not great. And he's only good because he totally abandons his man in order to get cheap steals or blocks.
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