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Old 07-29-2007, 03:10 AM   #16
michaelmanmoomoo
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glove_20
:rollingeyes:

I've never seen a more stupid and unintelligent post than that.


I wish you had your facts straight, twice you said the Sonics won 68 games, that never happened.




Honestly, if you can convince 1 poster, not even me, but anyone (and not your alternate accounts Jeff said you had, I saw one of them, Gibbo on the last thread), yeah, if you can convince anyone with that post, and I mean really convince them, someone with a solid background, you win.



Because really, no one on ISH with half a brain is going to look at that and say "that was a good post". No one. It was really that bad.


Forget convincing me, your not convincing anyone.



I'm not going to post on this thread anymore, and this time you are staying on my ignore list.

Still havent backed up your boy with anything substantial.

Just another attempt at putting me down.

I am not gibbo3000. Jeff might know that I have used the same PC as him but I am not him. He has just got similar common sense that i have.

My bad with the miss print on 68 games. It was meant to be 63 but if that is all you can pick out of my post then you have been defeated.

I would love to be on your ignore list because that shows that you are putting up the white flag, if your not man enough then bugger off. You are showing similar fight to many Sonics teams of past.

You have made many posts on this site and you have just proved that you cant back up any of them. I have gone to the effort of proving that Payton is not as good as you believe and you havent got the balls to back up your own mouth. Just like Payton didnt have the game to back up his talk.

Anyone who looks at this post with half a brain and understands that I like Payton, I just disagree with your over the top, biased opinon of him, will agree with what I have said.

He was a great defender, an excellent player, worthy of all denfensive team selections, but.... not top 30, not top 40 and definately not number 28 of all time.

So put me on your ignore list you cowardly, snivelling little runt. I have defeated you and every post you make regarding Payton I am going to be on you like a rash, copying and pasting this thread after every Payton 'pump up' that you give until you back it up with some sort of valid response or defense.

Last edited by michaelmanmoomoo : 07-29-2007 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glove_20
:rollingeyes:


Honestly, if you can convince 1 poster, not even me, but anyone (and not your alternate accounts Jeff said you had, I saw one of them, Gibbo on the last thread), yeah, if you can convince anyone with that post, and I mean really convince them, someone with a solid background, you win.


we're not the same person
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbo3000
we're not the same person
uh huh, just posting from the same computer then. :rollingeyes:
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Payton was the fourth best defesive player on the court that series behind Pippen, Jordan and Rodman, he was the fourth best player behind Jordan, Pippen and Kemp in that series.

Payton was a better defender than Jordan and Rodman (and arguably even Pippen) at that point in their careers.

He was also at worst the third best player in that series (he easily did better than Pippen) if you go only by what was done during that series and not careers.
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Old 07-29-2007, 07:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
If we are going to discuss Paytons DPOY awards (which you always seem to bring everything back to), tell me... when did he earn them?

How many guards have won DPOY awards since the award's induction into the league? 5. How many guards have won one since the late 80's when the award became a big man award? 1, GP dominating his way to a big man award is extremely impressive.

Quote:
As far as I know, the only team to STOP an NBA fit and ready Jordan in his prime were the Pistons. With DPOY and rebounding champion Dennis Rodman who had the ability to change games with his defense while Payton only had the ability to be a solid defender.

You go back and forth about how basketball is a team game and GP's teammates were the sole reason for his early individual success, and then say Dennis Rodman's defensive prowess was the reason the Pistons were able to put the clamps on a young MJ leading a young Bulls team. Are you stupid? You trying to compare Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer, Dantley, and Vinnie Johnson to Nate Mcmillan, Pierce, Askew, Kemp, and Schrempf? Go watch some basketball man, the water you drink is a little salty.

Quote:
Payton did try to change a series in 96 by attemting to guard Jordan, like others before him he did tug on Supermans cape for a little while (Starks)but could not handle the heat in the kitchen.

There is nothing to be ashamed about holding MJ to his worst finals series ever. Everybody knew MJ was the best player in the game, the Bulls were arguably the greatest team in NBA history with 72 wins and walked their way through to the finals. Most experts had the Bulls taking this throphy in a sweep or had the Sonics stealing a game. GP didn't back down from the matchup with MJ and had the goat visibly fustrated at times. The Sonics were close in making this a 7 game series if they had taken game 2. In the end, the better team won, quit making it seem like the Sonics got smashed in this series.

Quote:
Payton won DPOY (maybe because he actually led the league in steals this year above Pippen and JOrdan). Rodman, Pippen and Jordan were all named in the Defensive first team. The SOnics won 64 games but were lacking a stand out (jordan like) perfromance in the finals... Someone needed to step up and change the series but.... Kemp couldn't... Rodman had his number, Payton couldn't... he never could, he did not possess the ability, he was a great defender but he was chicken feed to a plyer like Jordan.

As many have said, the Bulls were a better team and the better team won. How the hell does a team roll to championship win in 6. at the audacity to say Rodman bottled up Kemp, when in reality he couldn't even hold Kemp's jockstrap. Kemp was making posters with Rodman as the posterboy in that series. The Worm's D was so great he held the Reignman to AVGS. of 23.3 PPG, 10.5 REB, 2 BLKS, on 55 FG%. GTFO with your nonsense.

Quote:
The Sonics (again) didnt make it past the second round and were beaten by the Lakers.


Why did the Sonics lose to this Lakers team? You've been so adament in explaning Sonics' losses, yet fail to explain this one. Ain't no shame in falling to a 61-21 team lead by Shaq, prime Eddie Jones, an improved Kobe Bryant, and Nick Van Exel.

Quote:
Allen Iverson (2nd year) was named All NBA first team but Payton did win All defensive team honours... but was not top five in steals (Iverson and Kidd both were) and Payton was All NBA second team with Tim Hardaway.

So by your logic, steals determine whether or not you're a great defender? Baron Davis, Larry Hughes, and AI are great defenders, I wonder why they don't get the same love GP gets by defensive enthusiasts and experts. Also, 99 was actually AI's 3rd year in the league. You seriously need to be hit by a parked car.

Quote:
No matter what you say in this forum Glove_20, 10 years down the track no one will look back and say - remember when Payton stopped Jordan to win a title? remember when Payton led the 60 win Sonics to a ring? remember when Payton won MVP for his all round greatness? remember when Payton dunked on someone? remember when Payton was the best player in the league?

The same could be said for the players below:

Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Reggie Miller
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Dominique Wilkens

So these guys don't deserve to be remembered as one of the NBA greats too right.
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Old 07-29-2007, 07:58 PM   #21
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmanmoomoo
I would stop too if it took me half an hour to read two paragraphs.

Is it as worthless as trying to display a tough guy image on a forum?

Please dont pistol whip me jailblazer7... Im scared

How im i trying to display a tough guy image? I have a Rakim avatar because i like him as an artist and im one of the least confrontation posters here. Maybe next time you should stop if you dont know what you are talking about instead of talking out of your ass.
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:30 AM   #22
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

That was one of the greatest posts ever in ISH. Payton is an overrated trash. He's a good PG but no way in hell he's in the top 10 PGs of all time.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:31 AM   #23
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

i didnt know the sonics got dirked by the nuggets in the 1st round..

nice thread. you possess tons of knowledge and facts to back up your beliefs.

i believe iverson , kidd, and kj > payton all day every day.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
uh huh, just posting from the same computer then. :rollingeyes:


how did you check that?
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:00 AM   #25
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmedamien
How many guards have won DPOY awards since the award's induction into the league? 5. How many guards have won one since the late 80's when the award became a big man award? 1, GP dominating his way to a big man award is extremely impressive.



You go back and forth about how basketball is a team game and GP's teammates were the sole reason for his early individual success, and then say Dennis Rodman's defensive prowess was the reason the Pistons were able to put the clamps on a young MJ leading a young Bulls team. Are you stupid? You trying to compare Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer, Dantley, and Vinnie Johnson to Nate Mcmillan, Pierce, Askew, Kemp, and Schrempf? Go watch some basketball man, the water you drink is a little salty.



There is nothing to be ashamed about holding MJ to his worst finals series ever. Everybody knew MJ was the best player in the game, the Bulls were arguably the greatest team in NBA history with 72 wins and walked their way through to the finals. Most experts had the Bulls taking this throphy in a sweep or had the Sonics stealing a game. GP didn't back down from the matchup with MJ and had the goat visibly fustrated at times. The Sonics were close in making this a 7 game series if they had taken game 2. In the end, the better team won, quit making it seem like the Sonics got smashed in this series.



As many have said, the Bulls were a better team and the better team won. How the hell does a team roll to championship win in 6. at the audacity to say Rodman bottled up Kemp, when in reality he couldn't even hold Kemp's jockstrap. Kemp was making posters with Rodman as the posterboy in that series. The Worm's D was so great he held the Reignman to AVGS. of 23.3 PPG, 10.5 REB, 2 BLKS, on 55 FG%. GTFO with your nonsense.



Why did the Sonics lose to this Lakers team? You've been so adament in explaning Sonics' losses, yet fail to explain this one. Ain't no shame in falling to a 61-21 team lead by Shaq, prime Eddie Jones, an improved Kobe Bryant, and Nick Van Exel.



So by your logic, steals determine whether or not you're a great defender? Baron Davis, Larry Hughes, and AI are great defenders, I wonder why they don't get the same love GP gets by defensive enthusiasts and experts. Also, 99 was actually AI's 3rd year in the league. You seriously need to be hit by a parked car.



The same could be said for the players below:

Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Reggie Miller
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Dominique Wilkens

So these guys don't deserve to be remembered as one of the NBA greats too right.


What type of jerk off enters an arguement that has been running between two people for a long time to try and look like a hero?

In arguing my above points you have taken every single one of them out of context... WHy? Because you have entered an arguement half way through and wasted probably 30 mins putting together the above post, yet you dont even understand the point of my original thread, or the 5 threads before that.....

Maybe you have errectile disfunction or just a very small ***** and critiquing my thread makes you feel better about yourself...?

If you want to debate something with me... Start a thread... and make your point. I will beat your ass down into a pulp.

But don't enter an argument half way through and write some huge post of bullsh!t, taking all my comments out of context to try and belittle my post.

Have some respect and stop being such a little *****.

What a d!ckhead.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmanmoomoo
What type of jerk off enters an arguement that has been running between two people for a long time to try and look like a hero?

In arguing my above points you have taken every single one of them out of context... WHy? Because you have entered an arguement half way through and wasted probably 30 mins putting together the above post, yet you dont even understand the point of my original thread, or the 5 threads before that.....

Maybe you have errectile disfunction or just a very small ***** and critiquing my thread makes you feel better about yourself...?

If you want to debate something with me... Start a thread... and make your point. I will beat your ass down into a pulp.

But don't enter an argument half way through and write some huge post of bullsh!t, taking all my comments out of context to try and belittle my post.

Have some respect and stop being such a little *****.

What a d!ckhead.

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Old 07-30-2007, 06:33 AM   #27
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Awards/accomplishments




NBA highlights

NBA Championship: 2006 (Miami Heat)
9-time NBA All-Star: 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003
9-time All-NBA:
First Team: 1998, 2000
Second Team: 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2002
Third Team: 1994, 2001
9-time All-Defensive First Team member: 1994–2002 (shares record for selections)[9]
NBA Defensive Player of The Year: 1996 (only guard to win the award in the 1990's)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1991
Led NBA in Assists: 1999-2000 (732)
Led NBA in Steals: 1995-96 (231)
Led NBA in Three-Pointers Made: 1999-2000 (177)

NBA milestones

In NBA history (as of 18th April 2007):
ranks 21st in points (21,813) - passed Larry Bird (21,791) on March 26, 2007
ranks 6th in assists (8,966)
ranks 3rd in steals (2,445)
ranks 7th in minutes (47,117)
ranks 8th in games (1335)
Only player in NBA history to accumulate 20,000 points, 5,000 rebounds, 8,000 assists and 2,000 steals in a career Along with John Stockton, Payton is one of only two players to compile 8,000 assists and 2,000 steals in his career

Between 1990-91 and 2005-06, Payton was first in the league in total minutes played, games played, and steals, was second in total assists (behind John Stockton), and was third in points (Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal). During this span, Payton also led all guards in offensive rebounds.

Seattle SuperSonics Records

ranks 1st all-time in points (18,207), assists (7,384), steals (2,107), games played (999), minutes played (36,858), field goals made (7,292), field goals attempted (15,562), three pointers attempted (2,855) and triple-doubles (14)
ranks 2nd in free throws attempted (3,726) and three pointers made (917)
ranks 3rd in total rebounds (4,240), free throws made (2,706) and defensive rebounds (3,043)

Other

2 Olympic Gold Medals with USA: 1996 Olympic Games (Atlanta) and 2000 Olympic Games (Sydney).

Ranked #47 on SLAM's Top 75 NBA Players of All Time in 2003.

Ranked #10 on ESPN's Top 10 NBA Point Guards of All Time. [10]

In a 2006 poll of 86,000 ESPN.com readers who were asked to rank the ESPN top 10 on various aspects of the game, Payton was considered "best defender" by 48.1% of respondents. Walt "Clyde" Frazier was second, with 11.8% of the vote.

In 2005, Payton was #1 on the list of best college point guards of the past 15 years by a reporter for College Hoops Net [11]

Payton has been a solid performer in All-Star games, leading his team in assists three times (1995, 1997 and 1998), and in points once (1996). In the 1990's, Payton had the two highest single-game assist totals for NBA All-Star games (15 in 1995, and 13 in 1998). He is currently #6 all-time in All-Star game assists and is #10 in All-Star game steals. He is also tied for #1 in All-Star game free throw percentage, having never missed a free throw in any of his 8 attempts. Payton was runner-up to Mitch Richmond for the 1995 NBA All-Star Game MVP award.[12]

In 2006, in commemoration of the NBA's 60th anniversary, TNT selected Payton among the "Next 10" players to be added to the list of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History, essentially recognizing Payton as one of the 60 Greatest Players in NBA History.

Payton has been on the cover of Sports Illustrated six times: three times as the featured cover story (in 1990[2], 1994[3], and 1996[4]), and three times in a secondary role [5][6][7].

Payton has appeared on the cover of SLAM Magazine two times - June 1998 and March 2003.

He has had two streaks of 350+ consecutive games played. Payton played 354 consecutive games between January 16, 1992 and March 13, 1996. Five days later, Payton began his second iron-man streak playing in 356 consecutive games between March 18, 1996 and Jan. 17, 2001.[13]

Code:
SEASON TEAM GP GS MPG SPG BPG RPG APG PPG '90-91 Seattle 82 82 27.4 2.01 0.18 3.0 6.4 7.2 '91-92 Seattle 81 79 31.5 1.81 0.26 3.6 6.2 9.4 '92-93 Seattle 82 78 31.1 2.16 0.26 3.4 4.9 13.5 '93-94 Seattle 82 82 35.1 2.29 0.23 3.3 6.0 16.5 '94-95 Seattle 82 82 36.8 2.49 0.16 3.4 7.1 20.6 '95-96 Seattle 81 81 39.0 2.85 0.23 4.2 7.5 19.3 '96-97 Seattle 82 82 39.2 2.40 0.16 4.6 7.1 21.8 '97-98 Seattle 82 82 38.4 2.26 0.22 4.6 8.3 19.2 '98-99 Seattle 50 50 40.2 2.18 0.24 4.9 8.7 21.7 '99-00 Seattle 82 82 41.8 1.87 0.22 6.5 8.9 24.2 '00-01 Seattle 79 79 41.1 1.61 0.33 4.6 8.1 23.1 '01-02 Seattle 82 82 40.3 1.60 0.32 4.8 9.0 22.1 '02-03 Sea/Mil 80 80 40.1 1.66 0.25 4.2 8.3 20.4 '03-04 LA Lakers 82 82 34.5 1.17 0.23 4.2 5.5 14.6 '04-05 Boston 77 77 33.0 1.14 0.16 3.1 6.1 11.3 '05-06 Miami 81 25 28.5 0.88 0.12 2.9 3.2 7.7 '06-07 Miami 68 28 22.1 0.6 0.0 1.9 3.0 5.3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4zKw6JG7do


Enough of the disrespecting of Gary Payton, How can you downgrade the guys legacy he is probably one of the most complete player during the 1990's. I am a huge fan of Payton especially when they face the Chicago Bulls in the 1996 NBA Finals in my point of view that was a very even match up; you have the current MVP going up againts the best defensive player in the NBA.

We all know that Michael Jordan was at his peak in 1996 and that was the time his Airness is very difficult to stop but the Glove game him a very tough defense that during that time i never see jordan got frustrated by an NBA Player until Gary Payton gave him a special treament.

We all know that during Payton's time playing for the Seattle Supersonics being the PG of his team. He is the real leader of this team in the time that the West is a much better conference in the mid 1990's. To sum up Payton's on the court playing style has been one area where few have questioned his fortitude. His all-time rankings for points (21st) and assists (6th) highlight the tremendous offensive contributions he made throughout his career, but he is most widely recognized for his intangible defensive contributions. He is the only guard to have won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year award since Michael Jordan in 1988, and he, Scottie Pippen, and Tim Duncan share the record for most career NBA All-Defensive First Team selections, with 9. He is currently third all-time in career steals. Payton is also considered one of the best defensive opponents of Michael Jordan , and was assigned to play defense as a shooting guard in order to defend Jordan during the 1996 NBA finals. During this series, Payton and his Sonics held Jordan's Bulls to the Bulls' lowest-scoring quarter in the Bulls' NBA finals history. A strong all-around player, Payton also ranks fifth all-time among guards in defensive rebounds, 12th in offensive rebounds, and 10th in total rebounds for a guard.

Many attribute his greatness to the tremendous work ethic and courage he displayed throughout his career. In 16 seasons, Payton has missed only 11 games, and at one point held the longest active streak for consecutive games played, with over 300. Of those games he did miss, many were due to suspensions or coaches' decisions, as Payton was highly capable (and highly willing) of playing through injury, even starting games wearing bandages across his abdomen or lower back in the 1999 and 2000 NBA seasons[The hard working and well-conditioned Karl Malone was the only player to log more minutes of playing time than Payton in the 1990s, and since the 1990-91 season when Payton joined the league, no player has logged more total minutes (as of the end of the 2005-06 season). Sports Illustrated labeled Payton's 2003-04 season as the best season ever by a point guard aged 35 or older, and Payton has continued to play at a high level even as he advances in age.

In his later years, Payton has gained recognition as a clutch performer, hitting several key shots during the Miami Heat's 2006 championship run.

Here is a Video that H@ters should watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4zKw6JG7do

Last edited by Lebron23 : 07-30-2007 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:49 AM   #28
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmanmoomoo
What type of jerk off enters an arguement that has been running between two people for a long time to try and look like a hero?

In arguing my above points you have taken every single one of them out of context... WHy? Because you have entered an arguement half way through and wasted probably 30 mins putting together the above post, yet you dont even understand the point of my original thread, or the 5 threads before that.....

Maybe you have errectile disfunction or just a very small ***** and critiquing my thread makes you feel better about yourself...?

If you want to debate something with me... Start a thread... and make your point. I will beat your ass down into a pulp.

But don't enter an argument half way through and write some huge post of bullsh!t, taking all my comments out of context to try and belittle my post.

Have some respect and stop being such a little *****.

What a d!ckhead.

I'll try to be curtious.

This is an internet forum. Everybody and anybody is welcome to join in on any thread. There are no 'private' threads where only certain posters can post, that would defeat the purpose of a forum and that is what instant messaging is used for.

You are getting oversensitive on the fact that this turned into a personal battle between you and Glove_20, while your post address Payton as a player, not by his affection by Glove_20. Just because somebody came into to support him does not mean you just simply attack him with unnecessarily rude words, if somebody came in and supported your side, wouldn't Glove_20 have a good reason to tell that guy to f*ck off because you did the exact same thing?
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:05 AM   #29
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

http://www.frontiernet.net/~shharpo/...goldglove.html

Great Article About Gary Payton 7 yrs. ago.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:16 AM   #30
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Default Re: The life and times of Gary Payton

I thought you were guangmoreno
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