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Old 07-08-2007, 03:10 PM   #16
Thorpesaurous
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
When healthy Jason Williams has been terrific with Wade. However he's been limping off & on for years now.

Yeah, I know, I just never thought it would work like it did.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
5yrs $40mil is a fair deal for Mo.

Thinking logically it's fair...But in in today's NBA where guys like Jason Kapono, and Matt Carrol get 5-6 mil a year respectively. And guys like Brian Cardinal and Marko Jaric fooling GM to give them the contracts they've gotten as well, it's in question..


Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
If Mo signs a 5 year deal, for how many of those years will Shaq be better than Bogut? Maybe just the first year? Possibly none of the years? I don't see Shaq at this stage of his career as something that I'd pass up money for the "honor" of playing next to. He'll be playing 60 games a season, and not putting up double doubles. So let's lay off of using that as a major selling point.

Shaq by all means has three years in this league left(with 3 yrs 60 mil left on his contract), and every last one of those years he will be better than Andrew Bogut...Shaq is not what he was and is on rapid decline now at the age of 35. But he'll still be better than Andrew Bogut for every last year he'll be in the league for. Shaq is still a player in this league, he's not the prime beast we saw with the Lakers, but he's still mighty effective player when healthy...

Shaq basically kept the Heat in the playoff picture this year when Wade sustained the shoulder injury..


Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
Wade is the best player on either team, but Milwaukee has some nice players too - Redd, Yi, Villanueva.



Dwyane Wade is better than any player on the Bucks by a WIDE margin...Including Redd. Redd is nice, great shooter..All Star caliber player. But he's one dimesional..A scorer and only a scorer. Not a defender, and certainly not a playmaker...

And Yi? Let's not annoint him as 'nice' to soon....He's got potential but he's got prove his worth first... Dude has had his ass busted by Wang ZhiZhi and his team in the CBA Finals, and Wang couldn't stay in the league...







Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
I love how everyone who doesn't want to play in Milwaukee is automatically a bad person by this guy's definition. First Yi, now Mo Williams.

I dunno, I don't know if PG should be the number one priority right now for the Heat. I think they need to find a low-post scorer to complement Haslem, or sort out that mess they have at SF by getting a talent that can be Wade's Pippen.

Shaq is a big question mark, and Zo is even a year older I think. Haslem is a great talent, very dependable, does all the little things, rebounds fairly well and has a decent 15 footer, but he doesn't seem to have a scorers mentality.

And the Heat are loaded at SF, but they're mostly aging, and none of them really stands out of the pack. Dorrell Wright seems to be a promising young talent, but is he ready to be a starter?

Posey seems to have some attitude issues, that have gotten him into a lot of flagrant problems (not that that would bother Riley, who coached the Knicks in the 90's) and he really isn't going to be a second fiddle to Wade, because he doesn't really fit the scorers mentality either.

A. Walker seems to show no signs of returning to his former all star form, of being one of the most scary triple threat players in the league. Instead he's kind've a bigger version of Donyell Marshall, standing back and chucking threes all game long.

Mathius

Point guard is certainly the number 1 priority for the Heat. Jason Williams is rarely healthy, and there is no one of the free agent market outside of Mo Williams who's worth commiting any large salary too...

Like I said, nabbing Mo Williams would kill two birds in one stone: scoring threat, and a point guard...

And in regards to Shaq and Zo as question marks...At the end of day, yes their age is in question, however next year they will both still be effective players...Zo going to suit them up from one more year, and his defensive prowees will still be felt by the league.

And Shaq, the ulimate question comes with him is his health and the ability to actually play the games. When Shaq plays, the Heat win...Simple as that. Shaq basically kept the Heat into the playoff picture when Wade got hurt...

It was an embarassing year overall with this team last year with the injuries and all the other distractions (Riley taking the leave of absence)..And then it all ending with a shameful defense of a title getting waxed by the Bulls...

But Shaq has alot of pride, and I'd have to think he's going to come back better next year and keep himself alot more healthier for the most part..

James Posey is probably not going to be back as the Heat are scracthing the luxury tax area, and Posey at 30 simply isn't worth going over for that as much as I like him.

And Dorell Wright will get every bit of shot I believe next year to become a player..He showed flashes in that stint of playing time he got last year, so it's all comes down to getting the consistent PT really...

Antoine Walker will not have any type of consistent role with the Heat next year...He's got 2 more years on the Books and then he's off...

if we could get Mo Williams that'll be pretty big..And all of sudden the Heat would become much younger..

Mo Williams-24
Dwyane Wade-25
Dorell Wright-21
Udonis Haslem-25
Shaquille O'Neal-Would then only be the player over 30 in the starting lineup, and he's Shaquille O'Neal at the end of the day, and still better than your favorite center sans maybe Yao Ming.....

'Zo Mourning
Daequan Cook
Antoine Walker

Wayne Simien

Nice 9/10 man rotation indeed...Would need another small forward in there though...



In the end though I beleive Mo Williams will sign with the Bucks as they will up their offer and my Ideal off-season would be crushed.....

Last edited by BFRESH44 : 07-08-2007 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

I like Miami for D.Wade, Dorrell Wright (Pat give him MINUTES), D.Cook and if Mo Williams were to be added? That would be a solid collection right there. Miami needs to cut off some of the dead weight, old age players...give the youth some time, get some young but established talent like Mo on deck. And let Wade shine like Vegas lights!

Quote:
Not in today's NBA where guys like Jason Kapono, and Matt Carrol get 5-6 mil a year respectively. And guys like Brian Cardinal and Marko Jaric foolings GM to give them the contracts they've gotten as well.

Well yea if we go by that.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
It was an embarassing year overall with this team last year with the injuries and all the other distractions (Riley taking the leave of absence)..And then it all ending with a shameful defense of a title getting waxed by the Bulls...

I don't see how you believe that will be improved. When almost your entire roster is over the age of 32, injuries tend to be pretty normal, unless the players have a Michael Jordan like workout regiment.

Quote:
But Shaq has alot of pride, and I'd have to think he's going to come back better next year and keep himself alot more healthier for the most part..

I don't know about that either. Shaq's never been known for his work ethic. Actually, quite the opposite. He seems rather lazy, and his priorities last season were questionable. Didn't he opt to have the knee surgery during the season instead of the off season, or was that just a rumor?

I could swear I read that he said that the off season was his, and the regular season was for basketball, and he would have his surgery during the season.

That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his off season regiment if its true.

Quote:
Shaquille O'Neal-Would then only be the player over 30 in the starting lineup, and he's Shaquille O'Neal at the end of the day, and still better than your favorite center sans maybe Yao Ming.....

I don't agree with that either. Shaq didn't impress me much at all last season, even late in the year when he was healthy. I think the Diesel of old is gone for sure, and I question if he'll even average more than 15ppg this year.

His game has really never progressed much further than physical. Sure, he's worked on his foot work, and developed a little softer touch, but he has no jump shot to fall back on from anywhere, which means he's useless outside of about 5 feet from the hoop. His free throw percentage has never improved after all these years, so he's still a liability in the crunch. He doesn't even have a go to move like Hakeem, or Jabbar did.

When you rely on physically overpowering players, you put yourself in risk of getting injured, especially if you're not in top shape.

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Old 07-08-2007, 04:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
I don't see how you believe that will be improved. When almost your entire roster is over the age of 32, injuries tend to be pretty normal, unless the players have a Michael Jordan like workout regiment.

I agree for the most far, however Shaq's injury last wasn't sustained to the result of a poor ethic and a non consistent workout regimen or anything like that. It was a freak incident..He bumped knees with Chuck Hayes of the Rockets and tore a ligament, which of course required surgery, thus him missing all those game..



Quote:
I don't know about that either. Shaq's never been known for his work ethic. Actually, quite the opposite. He seems rather lazy, and his priorities last season were questionable. Didn't he opt to have the knee surgery during the season instead of the off season, or was that just a rumor?


Quote:
I could swear I read that he said that the off season was his, and the regular season was for basketball, and he would have his surgery during the season.

That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in his off season regiment if its true.


Yes all those criticisms are true, however they're PRE MIAMI HEAT..

...Shaq has been in tip top shape since he first laid step in Miami. Pat Riley has kept Shaq's mighty diciplined in regards to his condtioning and staying in shape and keeping his body fat% low.

Shaq's decline is here due to of age, and physical gifts & skills deteriorating...Not because of his ability to stay in proper shape.


Hell since in Miami, Shaq has heavily endorsed physical fitness...

From the new reality Show('Shaq's Big Challenge')...To being responsible for multiple 24 Hour Fitness gyms being built around the South Florida area...And from going to State of Florida legislators in promoting mandatory Physical Eduacation in public schools





Quote:
I don't agree with that either. Shaq didn't impress me much at all last season, even late in the year when he was healthy. I think the Diesel of old is gone for sure, and I question if he'll even average more than 15ppg this year.

No agrument here..The Diesel of old is long gone..However he's still an effective player...

What bigman sans Tim Duncan and maybe Yao Ming would you rather have on your team going into the post-season (considering he's healthy) than Shaq?


Quote:
His game has really never progressed much further than physical.

Maybe so..But I think he's proved his worth in this league: 4 rings

Last edited by BFRESH44 : 07-08-2007 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/b...la-sports-heat




Mo Williams is the absolute perfect fit to Wade as a PG...I mean PERFECT. Can play off the ball, can create offense, and has a scorers mentality.

It's all coming down to money though..It's doubtful Mo takes the MLE...Could be using Miami as leverage to force the hand of Bucks...

However with the Bucks current offer reportedly at 5yrs/40 mill...When you consider state income tax, the Full MLE is not that far off...And then it'll basically comes down to where he wants to be? South Florida with Riles, D-Wade, and The Diesel? Or cold ass Wisconsin again?

Doubt the Bucks agree to a sign and trade as well...

No one will play well with DWhistle, shoot 80 times, make 8, except for the likes of Bevetta, Palmer, and the rest of the courtside entourage of DWhistle, also known as "referees."
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
No agrument here..The Diesel of old is long gone..However he's still an effective player...

What bigman sans Tim Duncan and maybe Yao Ming would you rather have on your team going into the post-season (considering he's healthy) than Shaq?

That's the point I'm trying to make. Shaq's game is almost all physical, it always has been, and his body is starting to break down on him.

I would almost take a guy like Zydrunus over Shaq at this point, because Z is probably going to be healthier, and his game is always going to be effective, because he can hit jump shot out to 20 feet.

Tim Duncan isn't really listed as a center, so by that classification, I could take Dwight Howard first, Amare Stoudemire.... the list goes on.

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Maybe so..But I think he's proved his worth in this league: 4 rings

Ok, but how many _could_ he have won if he had stayed in better shape and worked harder on his game?

Mathius
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
I would almost take a guy like Zydrunus over Shaq at this point, because Z is probably going to be healthier, and his game is always going to be effective, because he can hit jump shot out to 20 feet.


Ok it's official, Shaq is ridiclously underrated...

You're overstating Shaq's demise, and you're underating his current value bigtime with such a statement...

I'm done.

Last edited by BFRESH44 : 07-08-2007 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

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Shaq by all means has three years in this league left(with 3 yrs 60 mil left on his contract), and every last one of those years he will be better than Andrew Bogut.
Maybe if you pretend that putting up 18/8 in 55 games is better than putting up 16/9 in 80 games. Shaq will never play 65+ games again, and it's ridiculous to claim that a guy who can't get through the season is contributing based on his per-game stats.

He's in serious decline.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

i find it kinda funny that miami is linked to having interest in nearly EVERY free agent this offseason other than maybe billups. almost as though riley is conceding that even a healthy heat squad isn't capable of making it to the finals again.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:17 PM   #26
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
Ok it's official, Shaq is ridiclously underrated...

You're overstating Shaq's demise, and you're underating his current value bigtime with such a statement...

I'm not underrating anything. You just think he's more valuable than what he really is at this point in his career. There was some question as to whether or not he was even going to play at all last year.

You even went so far as to say, "Shaq's pride" won't let him repeat what happened last year.

As if anyone ever won anything on pure pride alone. Pride doesn't keep you from straining your back, or twisting your knee, or any of that crap.

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Old 07-08-2007, 05:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

the best fit next to wade? deron williamds
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Whats up with Yi? Is he playing for the Bucks or not?


If Mo Williams wants to go to the Heat I would offer a package of Jason Williams, Dequaen Cook, Dorell Wright, and a first round pick. Dorell is such a monster I might do it if I were the Bucks. It would save money. Jason Williams could be bought out if he didn't want to play backup.

Backup to who? The Bucks would lose their only starting calibre PG. They would have to make a strong push for Jarrett Jack or Steve Blake if hes still available. If nobody could be found it would mean another season of failure.

But is that so bad? There are a number of good points high in next years draft class. In reality only a superstar can truly take a dying franchise to the top. Just hope to be next year's Portland.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFRESH44
Ok it's official, Shaq is ridiclously underrated...

You're overstating Shaq's demise, and you're underating his current value bigtime with such a statement...

I'm done.

It's becoming an epidemic. Excluding Nash & Duncan. He still balances the floor better then anybody else in the NBA(offensively). It's the defensive end where he's step slower & getting cheap fouls.

The only the thing wrong with Shaq now is minutes. Shaq wears down in the 2nd half of games. It always been a problem since 03' but it's becoming more pronounced now. On avearage he's a 30 minute a game player now.

I'll take the 19 & 9 is what he gave you in the Chicago series in 31 MINUTES a game.

He'll be able to do that for the next 3 years barring a catastrophic injury. He's still that imposing.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Riley makes a recruiting pitch to Mo Williams....

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Originally Posted by aj242
The only the thing wrong with Shaq now is minutes.
No it isn't. The fact that he only plays 3 out of every 5 games during the season is something wrong. The fact that he can only shoot free throws at 42% making hack-a-shaq deadlier than ever is something wrong. If Shaq's dominant years never happened, nobody would be saying that the current Shaq is a top 25 player.
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