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Old 06-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #16
dejordan
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
why couldnt they take the Bulls? definitely possible. it was possible for all the teams the Bulls faced. Spurs have the personnel to implement the Jordan rules and Bowen is a better defender than Byron Russell or any of the guys Jordan faced except Payton and Payton held him to some off shooting nights. could happen.
don't really want to argue about it, but are you sure about bowen being a better defender than some of the guys michael went at it in the playoffs (not necessarily the finals)? rodman and dumars were on the same team. majerle was all-d a couple times. so was dennis johnson. starks, g. wilkins, and ron harper were all very good defenders too, though not all time great or anything. anyway they didn't have much impact on mj's playoff scoring. i do think the spurs could compete because i don't think dennis or grant can handle duncan (though vorejo did a good job and they were both better defenders than him). i'd be more concerned with scottie since manu has no chance against him. also who covers toni? they need bowen to guard all three of them. parker would be a pain in the ass though. it would probably be a really good series. i'll give it to chicago cause i'm a homer and i believe in mj's unparalleled ability to come through in the clutch.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Bruce Bowen cannot gaurd Michael Jordan.... So lets get that straight....

Much better defenders have tried and they had a better set of rules to play by......

How could Bowen check Mj if Dumars or Dj or Wilkens or Derek Harper or couldnt?

Bulls beat better teams on their way to their titles, not mention beating teams in the finals
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
don't really want to argue about it, but are you sure about bowen being a better defender than some of the guys michael went at it in the playoffs (not necessarily the finals)? rodman and dumars were on the same team. majerle was all-d a couple times. so was dennis johnson. starks, g. wilkins, and ron harper were all very good defenders too, though not all time great or anything. anyway they didn't have much impact on mj's playoff scoring. i do think the spurs could compete because i don't think dennis or grant can handle duncan (though vorejo did a good job and they were both better defenders than him). i'd be more concerned with scottie since manu has no chance against him. also who covers toni? they need bowen to guard all three of them. parker would be a pain in the ass though. it would probably be a really good series. i'll give it to chicago cause i'm a homer and i believe in mj's unparalleled ability to come through in the clutch.

dejordan I was only speaking of the finals and I have always thought Thunder Dan was overrated against quick perimeter players. Bowen has much quicker feet IMO than Majerle. you say Manu has no chance against Scottie? hmm.
as for Toni, not that big of a consistent threat. of course MJ still scores 30. no doubt but SA can shutdown the other pieces.

this is the game results for the 96', 72 win season. Tell me why you think Pip and Kukoc are such big scoring threats that SA would need Bowen on all of them after looking at the boxscores:

http://basketball-reference.com/team...996_games.html

BTW Jordan only scored 30 once in 6 games against Seattle.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:05 PM   #19
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
Bruce Bowen cannot gaurd Michael Jordan.... So lets get that straight....

Much better defenders have tried and they had a better set of rules to play by......

How could Bowen check Mj if Dumars or Dj or Wilkens or Derek Harper or couldnt?

Bulls beat better teams on their way to their titles, not mention beating teams in the finals

Bowen is a better defender than all of those except Dumars and DJ was aging. all those other guys could body up Jordan but werent nearly as quick as Bowen laterally IMO.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
Bowen is a better defender than all of those except Dumars and DJ was aging. all those other guys could body up Jordan but werent nearly as quick as Bowen laterally IMO.

who cares? Seriously. Even if that were so, only an idiot would suggest that

Bowen > Jordan Rules

or

Bowen > 90s Knicks teams

Jordan conquered both, and NO perimeter player in today's league has been through anything like those teams. Jordan would conquer Bowen like he did everyone else. Come on now. Because Bron and Kobe have had trouble with him doesn't mean Michael Jordan would.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
BTW Jordan only scored 30 once in 6 games against Seattle.

A lot of that was just him being off, and not anything Seattle was doing, though they played excellent defense on him. He was missing wide open baseline 15-footers, layups, offensive putbacks etc. I'd say about 2-4 shots per game that he normally made.

Regardless, it only worked because they swarmed him defensively (not SA's defensive style) with multiple defenders, and Payton and Hawkins were extremely physical with him, to a degree that is no longer allowed. If that primary defender can't contain Jordan's initial move (which would be more difficult w/o handchecking), it forces the rest of the defense to rotate and/or break down.

It didn't help that the rest of the Bulls were ice cold from the field (Pippen ~33%, Kukoc ~32%, Kerr ~35% iirc), which allowed Seattle to trap Jordan constantly without penalty. If you're banking on every Bull going ice cold in the same series again (and they were getting open shots primarily, mind you) in order to facilitate containing Jordan via constant traps, you're in for a long series, because it didn't happen much to all of them at once.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

there is no player in the nba that is so far above his peers as jordan was in his prime.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
who cares? Seriously. Even if that were so, only an idiot would suggest that

Bowen > Jordan Rules

or

Bowen > 90s Knicks teams

Jordan conquered both, and NO perimeter player in today's league has been through anything like those teams. Jordan would conquer Bowen like he did everyone else. Come on now. Because Bron and Kobe have had trouble with him doesn't mean Michael Jordan would.

at no point did I say Bowen could shut Jordan down and dont forget the Jordan rules worked for years. It was only when the Bulls defense got better and tougher that they could beat the Pistons plus the Pistons were falling off when the Bulls finally conquered them. If you saw what I posted originally on this I said SA had the personnel to implement the Jordan rules not one man completely locking him up and even if Jordan scored 50, the Bulls could still lose. plus I never said SA would win. I said they could.

as far as the 90s Knicks, this SA team is better IMO. they were paper tigers. They barely beat the Bulls without Jordan.
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

once again, it's hilarious the way this thread backfired on chopchop. He meant for this thread to say "Jordan fans are bad.. we kobe fans get unfairly treated'. Then everyone jumps in and reply "no.. you guys deserve it, and jordan fans aren't as bad as you guys".

which is truth.

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Old 06-20-2007, 05:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
dejordan I was only speaking of the finals and I have always thought Thunder Dan was overrated against quick perimeter players. Bowen has much quicker feet IMO than Majerle. you say Manu has no chance against Scottie? hmm.
as for Toni, not that big of a consistent threat. of course MJ still scores 30. no doubt but SA can shutdown the other pieces.

this is the game results for the 96', 72 win season. Tell me why you think Pip and Kukoc are such big scoring threats that SA would need Bowen on all of them after looking at the boxscores:

http://basketball-reference.com/team...996_games.html

BTW Jordan only scored 30 once in 6 games against Seattle.
he also scored over 25 4 times, dropping 36 in the only road win for either team.

here's the thing. assuming that bowen is actually a problem for michael, scottie and toni are likely to get a lot more shot attempts since it's pointless to feed mj against the best defender he's ever faced (still think the fact that rodman couldn't handle him dispells this - since in terms of size and style a pistons rodman is much more like bowen than payton is). and detlef is a much better match up against either of them than manu who is painfully outsized. we're not comparing apples to apples here.

i will say this. i just watched game 6 of the 96 finals and payton's defense is very different than bowens. he used superior quickness (bowen is not quicker than mj so that strategy is out) and did a lot of front and recover moves in the post to keep mj out of his favorite spots (mike also missed a TON of open shots and looked very tired - not finishing strong at the rim and leaving shots short. i was surprised because i didn't remember that being the case. he might have been unable to focus because it was fathers day and he was so hungry to win for his father who had passed in 94).

however, jordan didn't go into the post against small forward defenders, so even if bruce was capable of using paytons methods, he wouldn't get the chance to. jordan usually faced sfs up. i could be wrong, but i don't personally see bowen staying between jordan and the rim. and i don't see jordan bailing him out with unnecessary long js the way kobe and ray allen do.

i see an instant double or a stretched out trap (like they gave carmello) and mj making the right pass.

or if the trap is late (or bowen's isolated and there is no trap - though from what pop did to bron and melo i don't think he'd do that), jordan gets to the paint (like iverson did) where duncan better not pick up too many fouls trying to block jordan's dunks, finger rolls, reverses, etc because mj is twice the finisher than iverson is (it's those six entra inches).

or he could split a double and go to the mid range game where he excels beyond anyone the spurs have encountered. this is sounding a lot like the bulls v. knicks as i think about it.

again i think it's a tough series because parker and duncan are very difficult matchups, but i think the notion that bowen's d will hamper the bull's offense is maybe overstating things, and that using the semi-success of the sonics as a basis for a spurs team that uses different defensive strategies and has different personel is maybe not an exacting projection of how things would play out.

and to the thread starter - i promise this is my last jordan post of the day. this is getting a little bit ridiculous. :)
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
he also scored over 25 4 times, dropping 36 in the only road win for either team.

here's the thing. assuming that bowen is actually a problem for michael, scottie and toni are likely to get a lot more shot attempts since it's pointless to feed mj against the best defender he's ever faced (still think the fact that rodman couldn't handle him dispells this - since in terms of size and style a pistons rodman is much more like bowen than payton is). and detlef is a much better match up against either of them than manu who is painfully outsized. we're not comparing apples to apples here.

i will say this. i just watched game 6 of the 96 finals and payton's defense is very different than bowens. he used superior quickness (bowen is not quicker than mj so that strategy is out) and did a lot of front and recover moves in the post to keep mj out of his favorite spots (mike also missed a TON of open shots and looked very tired - not finishing strong at the rim and leaving shots short. i was surprised because i didn't remember that being the case. he might have been unable to focus because it was fathers day and he was so hungry to win for his father who had passed in 94).

however, jordan didn't go into the post against small forward defenders, so even if bruce was capable of using paytons methods, he wouldn't get the chance to. jordan usually faced sfs up. i could be wrong, but i don't personally see bowen staying between jordan and the rim. and i don't see jordan bailing him out with unnecessary long js the way kobe and ray allen do.

i see an instant double or a stretched out trap (like they gave carmello) and mj making the right pass.

or if the trap is late (or bowen's isolated and there is no trap - though from what pop did to bron and melo i don't think he'd do that), jordan gets to the paint (like iverson did) where duncan better not pick up too many fouls trying to block jordan's dunks, finger rolls, reverses, etc because mj is twice the finisher than iverson is (it's those six entra inches).

or he could split a double and go to the mid range game where he excels beyond anyone the spurs have encountered. this is sounding a lot like the bulls v. knicks as i think about it.

again i think it's a tough series because parker and duncan are very difficult matchups, but i think the notion that bowen's d will hamper the bull's offense is maybe overstating things, and that using the semi-success of the sonics as a basis for a spurs team that uses different defensive strategies and has different personel is maybe not an exacting projection of how things would play out.

and to the thread starter - i promise this is my last jordan post of the day. this is getting a little bit ridiculous. :)

dejordan, let me say that I would put money on the Bulls. but to suggest Spurs would have no chance as the other guy did was why I started this. i'm surprised no one made a case for the Bulls D without which, the Bulls dont win ships. not apples to apples for sure but the Spurs could do things to bother Jordan and Bowen is part of that. like you said enough Jordan talk. yes the man was great but he didnt wear a cape and this is basketball we're talking about.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
at no point did I say Bowen could shut Jordan down and dont forget the Jordan rules worked for years. It was only when the Bulls defense got better and tougher that they could beat the Pistons plus the Pistons were falling off when the Bulls finally conquered them.

More like "it was only when Jordan got some teammates capable of stepping up and hitting shots and making plays so Detroit couldn't run two and three guys at him every play" that they beat the Pistons.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Jordon and Hobe gr00pies are the worst scum of the earth.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Jordan grOOpies and Kobe grOOpies are so annoying....We should count how many threads are made with these 2 alone.....It is quite annoying after a while but you kind of get used to it...Where are all the Scot Pollard grOOpies?
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: Am I the only one who noticed how annoying Jordan gr00pies have been lately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
More like "it was only when Jordan got some teammates capable of stepping up and hitting shots and making plays so Detroit couldn't run two and three guys at him every play" that they beat the Pistons.

Or the Bad Boys got old

In all truthfulness, it is a mixture of both.
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