Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2007, 12:22 PM   #1
Skyscraper
Local High School Star
 
Skyscraper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,730
Default Is Jordan really the GOAT?

i mean when zone defenses were illegal during the best time of his career (excluding his final season with the Wizards) he flourished. but if defenses and coaching were allowed to diagram complex zones and traps to use against him... would he really have been able to defeat it and still be the GOAT with the highest PPG average and his numerous accolades?
Skyscraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:31 PM   #2
Cannonball
Lets GO PENS!
 
Cannonball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pa...
Posts: 8,884
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

We will never know, and there is no use arguing it.
Cannonball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:31 PM   #3
Azzphalto
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 107
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Who else is the GOAT? Byron Houston?Joe Forte? Michael Olowakandi?Sam Bowie?Gheorge Muresan? whoever ur thinking he's not, there's only one GOAT and that is MJ.
Azzphalto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:31 PM   #4
Richie2k6
Smooth Like Butter
 
Richie2k6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Terrordome Team: Nuggets
Posts: 9,906
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Oh. My. God.
Richie2k6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:32 PM   #5
chains5000
From Out Of Nowhere
 
chains5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bilbao
Posts: 8,656
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

What's up with people today?
chains5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:33 PM   #6
Collie
Great college starter
 
Collie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

He is arguably the GOAT, of that, it is unarguable.
Collie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:34 PM   #7
Skyscraper
Local High School Star
 
Skyscraper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,730
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

I think Bill Russell is the GOAT from a pure basketball performance standpoint


but I can see how the whole package of how Jordan transcended the game to become an icon, and how he managed to accomplish so much as a guard, that is why he is given GOAT status
Skyscraper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:35 PM   #8
starks
I brick open layups
 
starks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

****************************

The greatest talk about the greatest
By HAL BOCK
AP Sports Writer
14 January 1999
02:45
Associated Press Newswires
English
(c) 1999. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

The greatest said he was the greatest ever.

With a few exceptions, many of the NBA's 50 greatest players agreed that Michael Jordan was the best of all.

Some of their comments:

PAUL ARIZIN

"I don't think you can pick a single greatest. Jordan is more a forward than a guard. But how do you compare him to a center? They've got different jobs. It's apples and oranges. It's comparing golfers to tennis players.

"He's certainly a great player. Is he the greatest in his category? I wouldn't say that. A guy like Elgin Baylor got less publicity. Wilt, Russell, there are many great players. You can name the 15 greatest. He'd probably be in that category."

RICK BARRY

"I keep hearing he's the greatest and that upsets me. It's not fair to other players. You can't compare a 2-guard to a center. There are five different and distinct positions. He's the greatest 2-guard I ever saw and the most exciting player."

ELGIN BAYLOR

"Not only do I admire Jordan's accomplishments and his phenomenal basketball ability, but also the way he has conducted himself on and off the court. I don't think there will ever be another player to have the same impact on the game of basketball as Michael Jordan. If you look up the definition of greatness in the dictionary, it will say Michael Jordan."

DAVE BING

"Michael is the most talented player I've ever seen. Wilt was the most dominating, but Michael has the most talent in every aspect of the game, even defense.

"He's the best ever because of his combination of skills, his competitiveness. Russell, Wilt, Kareem dominated because of their size, but they didn't have Michael's skills."

LARRY BIRD

"Is he the greatest? He's in the top two."

BOB COUSY

"He's by far the best since Naismith hung up the basket. He touches every base. He could play three, maybe four positions and maybe even center, too. He has no discernible weakness. The keys to basketball, despite the emphasis on big men, is still speed and quickness. He has them in abundance. When I jumped as high as I could, I got to the bottom of the net. When he jumps as high as he can, he's over the backboard. He's the best, without question."

DAVE COWENS

"If you're a young player and you have to have a role model, following up Dr. J with Michael Jordan, it certainly doesn't get any better than that. From all I've heard the last few years, there's nobody anybody wants to see in our league except Michael Jordan. He wanted to be known not only as a great scorer and a winner, but a great defender. And he was. As good as Chicago was offensively, they were better defensively primarily because of Michael Jordan."

BILLY CUNNINGHAM

"I think he was the best ever. The whole package. He's scary sometimes with his defense. The passion he had amazes me. At a certain age, it's more difficult to get up for a game. A big game, sure, it's easy. But he did it for every game. How did he do it? To motivate himself at a level to perform. There's no burnout there. It's something within himself. If I had to play him, I'd pray a lot."

PATRICK EWING

"All I can speak for is people in my era, and from what I've seen, he's definitely the greatest. Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to see Bill, Wilt or Oscar or some of the other guys. But based upon what I've seen, definitely.

MAGIC JOHNSON

"He's an icon, a one-man show. He's won one more championship than I did. He'll be rubbing it in my face for eternity. I was hoping he would stay just one more year to help these young NBA players learn how to be a true professional."

SAM JONES

"I don't know if he knows how good he is. He's tremendous. I've never seen anything like him. He's only 6-6. That's amazing. You seldom see a person that size do those things. He's so creative and to be able to take over a game at that size, it's amazing. Oscar and West were the best, but there's no other version of Jordan, the hang time, how high he jumps, how quick he moves. The guy amazes me. ... He's the best I've ever seen."

JERRY LUCAS

"He's been probably the most important player in the history of the game as far as its success, popularity and growth. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird provided a lift when the game needed it. Michael took it to another level and brought more and more fans.

"He's the greatest player who ever lived, a unique attraction. He's such a competitor. He forced the players around him to play at a higher level. He's a competitor. That describes a special player. When the sport loses him, it's like losing Babe Ruth in baseball. I've never seen a player who can do what he did."

GEORGE MIKAN

"He's the one and only Michael Jordan. He does everything well. He's great offensively and defensively. What else would you want a guy to do? When you see a guy scoring 40 points every time ... and he plays more with his head today. He doesn't rely on instinct anymore. He's always in the right place."

SHAQUILLE O'NEAL

"Michael's definitely the best basketball player of all time. He's the greatest offensive weapon to ever play, and probably the best defensive player we've ever seen."

OSCAR ROBERTSON

"Michael is a tremendous basketball player who understands the game immensely. I think Michael learned how to play the game in the pros. Because of TV and media, he became bigger off the court than on it. He is a tremendous marketing vehicle to sell everything. I think he hesitated to say `No more' because he did it once before and that turned out to be a mistake."

BILL RUSSELL

"I cannot imagine anyone playing any better."

DOLPH SCHAYES

"Michael's had the greatest impact on the NBA than any player in history. He was the greatest competitor who came through when asked. He rarely had a bad game. You'd expect 10 percent of the time that he would not do well. He beat those odds.

"He'll surely be missed the first year or two out. He sold out buildings because people want to see him. He got a lot of people who were not fans watching the game. There's nobody on the horizon to take his place, not Grant Hill and not Kobe Bryant. He's the player of the century."

BILL SHARMAN

"Michael Jordan is the greatest all-around basketball performer of all time. ... I don't believe Michael was the greatest shooter or the greatest dribbler or passer or the greatest defensive player, etc. However, I believe he could do all these things better than anyone else who ever played in the NBA."

ISIAH THOMAS

"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he's also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time."

NATE THURMOND

"He's the greatest that ever touched a basketball, that ever lived, any way you want to put it and without a doubt. I hope I'm alive when there will be an argument of who is another player who comes along who's as good. I hope I'm around to see this guy.

BILL WALTON

"He has no peers but Michael Jordan. He competes against himself. That's the level he's taken it to."

JERRY WEST

"I have to think he's the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game. To me he's the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league for a number of years. To be the defensive player of the year with all the other things he had to do, to me, he's a marvel. He has separated himself from the rest of the good players as far as I'm concerned. He's the modern day Babe Ruth."

LENNY WILKENS

"He became the greatest. I won't say he was when he first started, but he developed into, I think, the greatest player who ever played basketball. I think he combined all of it, the athleticism with the skill. And every year he improved his skill. And also the mental toughness it takes to come out night in and night out and deliver your best performance. ... You know I've seen a lot of great players, but never one who could dominate a game like Michael could."
starks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 12:39 PM   #9
20 Dimes A Game
HeartHustleHope
 
20 Dimes A Game's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Behind You!
Posts: 2,784
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Jordan is the best basketball player ever to play the game. Period.
20 Dimes A Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:00 PM   #10
kps
Decent playground baller
 
kps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 299
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

[quote=Skyscraper]I think Bill Russell is the GOAT from a pure basketball performance standpoint


I agree. Russell is the best all time.
kps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:04 PM   #11
MMM
877-954-1893
 
MMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,587
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

I'm not sure why everyone is so hung up on debating whether he is the GOAT or not, Can we not just reach a consensus than MJ is one of the Greatest probably within the top 2 or 3 all time. Do we really need to discuss periodically where exactly he fits in the top 2 or 3.
MMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:11 PM   #12
dejordan
Mars Blackmon Lives!
 
dejordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,322
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

he's got as strong a case for GOAT as anyone, but i don't think it's truly possible to rule out any of the top 3 - 5.
dejordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:16 PM   #13
EricForman
Good college starter
 
EricForman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,347
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

there are a combination of things that makse Jordan GOAT

it's a combination of:

1: rings (6 as the undisputed #1 man, more so than anyone except for Russell)

2: dominance over his peers (there was rarely any doubt who the best player was, it was always Jordan at the top. We may have taken that for granted in the 90s, but now look how hard it is for one guy to stay on top. Every year we have a new "best player in the game" it seems. Sure Duncan has been the best, but Kobe, Lebron, KG, or even Wade all has had a strong case for the top spot, no one has a lock on the spot the way Jordan did)

3: stepping up when it matters (as great as magic, wilt, shaq was, all these cats have been outplayed, embarassed, or outperformed in a playoff series by an opponent. I can't think of one series where Jordan was outplayed by one guy. Even in the early years when the Bulls lost to the Pistons, there was never ANY DOUBT who the best player was. I also can't remember one "horrible playoff series" by Jordan, at least statistically... anyone can dig up any Jordan playoff serise average that's far below his norm? I dont think so. But you can definitely find these for Shaq, Kobe, Duncan,whoever)

4: mastered more than one area of the game (offensively, he was the best, but he was also one of the best defenders. early on his J was shaky and he was a penetrating machine, later on his career he had the deadliest midrange J and post up game in the league. What other player has completely changed up their game over the years and mastered both areas so skillfully?)

5: consistency (once Jordan got to the top, he stayed there and no one could knock him off. unlike everyone else, who would win a ring one year and then go out in the first round the next (ahem, Magic) or get completely outplayed/destroyed the next year in a early round.

I don't think it's even close when it comes to GOAT debates. People that put a case for Wilt only do so because of his stats, but the fallacy in the thinking is that, Wilt's stats were so ridiculous you can only come to two conclusions-- either A: they were heavily skewed or B: they were legit and Wilt would put up these numbers today... which would basically make him GOD. So you either believe Wilt is GOD, or you take the realistic apporach and realize his numbers don't mean jack beacuse they're skewed and he wouldn't come close to averaging 25 boards in today's game. So once you take Wilt's numebrs away, his failure to win and him being outplayed in the playoffs so many times automatically DISQUALIFIES him from any GOAt conversation.

Kareem and Magic GOAT? How do they lose in the first round in 83 together, or get swept/embarassed by the Pistons in 89? If you have two arguably GOAT guys together, they actually probably shoulda won more and been more consistent, right?

Bill Russell is the only one who can really make a serious case against Jordan for GOAT. He won more, and he always got the upper hand in the playoffs like Jordan did, which is somethign just about 99% of other superstars can't claim.
EricForman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:16 PM   #14
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyscraper
i mean when zone defenses were illegal during the best time of his career (excluding his final season with the Wizards) he flourished. but if defenses and coaching were allowed to diagram complex zones and traps to use against him... would he really have been able to defeat it and still be the GOAT with the highest PPG average and his numerous accolades?

Why wouldn't he be able to, considering he has athletic, creative, and skill advantages over every player playing today? What sort of numbers are the best wings putting up today again? Jordan would do better. He wouldn't blow them out of the water or anything, but he'd do better. He was just a better player. On both ends.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:22 PM   #15
dejordan
Mars Blackmon Lives!
 
dejordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,322
Default Re: Is Jordan really the GOAT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyscraper
i mean when zone defenses were illegal during the best time of his career (excluding his final season with the Wizards) he flourished. but if defenses and coaching were allowed to diagram complex zones and traps to use against him... would he really have been able to defeat it and still be the GOAT with the highest PPG average and his numerous accolades?
i don't think the zones would hurt him as much as the no hand check would help. the old school guys all went to 3 years of college and really knew how to pick apart a zone, and he worked extremely well without the ball - outside of maybe reggie miller, i'd say he's the best off the ball shooting guard i've ever seen. on top of which he liked to turn towards the baseline on his fadeaway which negated most double teams. it would be hard to devise a better defensive strategy to use against an athletic 2 than detroit did for mj, and he still averaged 30 against them. however if dumars and rodman weren't allowed to touch him on the dribble without him shooting free throws, he might have averaged closer to 40.

whether he's actually goat is of course debateable.
dejordan is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:32 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy