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Old 06-19-2007, 12:04 PM   #31
Richie2k6
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
first of all clyde, mitch, reggie, dumars, spree, penny, smith, rider, houston, and elliot would fit right in today, and michael didn't just compete them, he dominated them.

second kobe, wade, tmac, lebron, vince, and melo built their games on the shoulders of the game jordan developed. the reason the league is full of strong swingmen now is that they had jordan's game to model their own after. watch any game that kobe, wade, carter, or tmac have played and that should be pretty clear.

oh and that's not taking into consideration the no handcheck factor which basically makes jordan a suped up version of wade with superior skills in basically every category you can think of and better size. as wade is at least on par with basically all the rest, and it's very clear that jordan's more complete game and better size give him a considerable edge over dwhistle, i don't think it's too much to extrapolate that he'd be unguardable.

if that's too hard to follow, look at it this way: wade's major advantage is his quickness in a league where you're not allowed to touch on the perimeter. jordan was as quick as wade. but he was as big as kobe. and he got off the floor like bron. and he worked without the ball better than anyone on your list, split double teams with iverson-like effectiveness, and finished against vastly superior shotblockers (hakeem, drob, mutumbo, mourning, shaq, eaton, parish, bol) in a time when there was no defensive 3 second rule at a higher percentage than any of them.

and on top of all of that athleticism is and one on one play is only one aspect of mj's greatness. his ability to inspire, mold, and motivate his teammates leaves all of them in the dust except maybe lebron. his ability to carry a team all game and then finish strong is unrivaled. his defensive prowess is far above them all that it's ridiculous to even discuss it.

so i do get where you're coming from in that you have a lot more people playing like mj did today than you did when he was inventing a way for athletic guards to be successful star players, but when you put it into context the separation seems almost bigger because the league was not set up for a two guard to succeed in the 80s / 90s. after mj the idea of a sg-centric team / league became an institution.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
first of all clyde, mitch, reggie, dumars, spree, penny, smith, rider, houston, and elliot would fit right in today, and michael didn't just compete them, he dominated them.

second kobe, wade, tmac, lebron, vince, and melo built their games on the shoulders of the game jordan developed. the reason the league is full of strong swingmen now is that they had jordan's game to model their own after. watch any game that kobe, wade, carter, or tmac have played and that should be pretty clear.

oh and that's not taking into consideration the no handcheck factor which basically makes jordan a suped up version of wade with superior skills in basically every category you can think of and better size. as wade is at least on par with basically all the rest, and it's very clear that jordan's more complete game and better size give him a considerable edge over dwhistle, i don't think it's too much to extrapolate that he'd be unguardable.

if that's too hard to follow, look at it this way: wade's major advantage is his quickness in a league where you're not allowed to touch on the perimeter. jordan was as quick as wade. but he was as big as kobe. and he got off the floor like bron. and he worked without the ball better than anyone on your list, split double teams with iverson-like effectiveness, and finished against vastly superior shotblockers (hakeem, drob, mutumbo, mourning, shaq, eaton, parish, bol) in a time when there was no defensive 3 second rule at a higher percentage than any of them.

and on top of all of that athleticism is and one on one play is only one aspect of mj's greatness. his ability to inspire, mold, and motivate his teammates leaves all of them in the dust except maybe lebron. his ability to carry a team all game and then finish strong is unrivaled. his defensive prowess is far above them all that it's ridiculous to even discuss it.

so i do get where you're coming from in that you have a lot more people playing like mj did today than you did when he was inventing a way for athletic guards to be successful star players, but when you put it into context the separation seems almost bigger because the league was not set up for a two guard to succeed in the 80s / 90s. after mj the idea of a sg-centric team / league became an institution.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:04 PM   #33
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kblaze
Jordan in 02 got hurt around the all star break and because he didnt want to quit on the team played through much of it and only put up 16ppg and played just 28 minutes after the break. But before it....

25/6/5.3 and he was getting better. Working into shape. he month just before he got hurt he averaged a rounded off 27/7/5.

Kobe for the year put up a rounded up 25/6/6 and Jordan before he went down put up...25/6/5. jordan slightly up in blocks. Both with 1.48 steals. And Kobe played more minutes. Jordan was at 25/6/5 in under 35 minutes a game. Kobe has not played minutes that low since 1998. Kobe shot better from the field that year. But Jordan was not the Jordan of old. He was old Jordan. He was out there hesitating to dunk because he didnt want to miss.


This "era" **** has gotten totally out of control when people think Michael Jordan would fail to do anything these days. Wade just led a team to a title while being worse than Jordan at literally every single phase of the game. And thats something often said but rarely true. But Jordan in his prime was a better midrange, outside, and in the lane shooter, a better defender in the post and outside, a better passer, rebounder, and really...everything. Well I guess MJ didnt have Wades crossover but a crossover and ball handling arent the same thing. Jordan was better than Wade at getting where he wanted to be. And thats enough ball handling for me.

If Jordan 12-15 years removed from his physical peak in a stage of his life he had to be all skills and could barely even dunk could put up 25/6/5 in a league that had basically every current great player aside from Lebron and Wade how is an equally skilled but far more athletic Jordan going to fail to dominate?

Jordan had comp to equal anyones. Nobody in this league now that Kevin Willis is gone has even played a team the equal of the Showtime Lakers or Birds Celtics. Well no. is cliff still around in NJ? If so...no star has played them. None of these guards have had to beat Dumars and/or Rodman to go into the lane and get knock the **** out by Laimbeer and have them get away with it. Nobody today is going into the lane and running into centers like Hakeem/Drob/Mutombo in his prime/Zo/Ewing and so on.

And Jordan played when despite getting favored by the refs he couldnt get the calls Wade, AI, Bron, and Kobe do. The rules have changed in their favors. NBA allows a zone but teams dont really use it well and teams in the 80s used it too they just got away with it(unless they were playing Pat Riley who loved to point it out to refs when his own team wasnt using one).

You cant even handcheck a guy anymore. Much less all the **** Rodman, Moncrief, Jones, Gerald Wilkins, Starks, Dumars, nance, DJ, and such did to MJ. And the athletic difference between the best modern outside defenders and MJs isnt big. The best man to man defender now is probably Bruce Bowen who is hardly an athletic freak. Hes just determined, with good fundamentals, and allowed to play alllllllmost like 90s defenders could. So there is prince. There was Bobby Jones, Gerald Wilklins, Spider Smith(with his 7'6'' wingspan) and Larry Nance who guarded everyone from 2-5. Nance athletically may have no current better of his build. Closest would be Josh Smith. Nance wasl ike 6'10'' both fast and quick(difference) with hops like few ive ever seen.

There are tough bigmen like Ben Wallace now. No current center is either as athletic or skilled on D as Hakeem and Drob were. Or Ewing for that matter if you use pre injury Ewing. Which bigmen now are better disrupting an offense than Zo was? Or Mutombo?

How many pointguards now are better defenders than Gary Payton was? Or Alvin Robertson? Or Derek Harper? How many swingmen are better defenders than Pippen, Jordan, Rodman(who was a swingman type early and the best 3/4 defender later), Cooper Moncrief, and so on? How many 4s are better defenders than Oakley, Williams, and Mccray? I can think of 2. And Jordan played both.

Is this all D team:

Ben
Bowen
AK
Artest
Kidd
Kobe(they had 6 last year with a tie)

really better than this one from 10 years ago?

Payton
Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Drob

?

And its not like Jordan played all old guys who dont play now. Or bad comp period. He played Duncan, Shaq, Dirk, Tmac, AI, Kidd, Pierce, Webber, KG and all them. In fact he played 9 of the 11 people currently on the all D team. And 11 of the 15 all NBA players. Not to mention Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Zo, Ewing, Isiah, Drexler, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Kareem, Mchale, Nique, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Kemp, LJ, Mullin, KJ, Reggie Miller and more.

Jordan isnt one of those "era" guys. Even if someone thought he was the fact that he played against every great player to enter the NBA in the last 22 years aside from Lebron and Wade should kill that idea. And if anyone still wasnt convinced seeing a 38-39 yearold Jordan on bad knees robbed of his athletic ability and playing just 35 minutes put up 25/6/5 in 2002 should have left no doubt.

Michael Jordan in any setting is Michael Jordan. If he played and dominated any and everyone in his path in a prime including some of the greatest defenders and scorers in basketball history I doubt hed crumble in the face of the mighty shutdown D of Tayshaun Prince and Ron Artest or the amazing offensive talents of Wade and Lebron.

Michael Jordan in his prime dominated the 80s and 90s. MJ after his prime was among the best in the 2000s when healthy. You could drop MJ in his prime into the 2255 NBA and watch him put up 32/6/6 vs 7'3'' shooting guards with Dirk range and KG athletic ability.

Hes Michael Jordan. End of story.


This is an old quote by blaze that I like to bring up for slobbering dolts like Poseidon who try to pull the "Jordan couldn't do it today!!" nonsense.

Last edited by Knoe Itawl : 06-19-2007 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:17 PM   #34
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

He can be the next MJ in commercial appearances
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:20 PM   #35
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie2k6
He had challenges.

In his prime ('90-'96)? Who?

He had no "challenges" during that period. And only Laker fans thought that Magic > MJ in 1990 anyway. By 1991 it was as unanimous as it can be.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:25 PM   #36
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
This is an old quote by blaze that I like to bring up for slobbering dolts like Poseidon who try to pull the "Jordan couldn't do it today!!" nonsense.


That was a great quote and says it all.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon
I've said this in the past and I'll say it again.....

Michael Jordan is the beneficiary of playing in an era with limited competition in his position.

The only real other marquee SG was Clyde Drexler, whom he only faced 2 times per season.

Michael Jordan would NOT have reached "God-like" status playing in today's NBA mainly because of better competition at his position.....not to mention that he would win ZERO dunk contests with the athletes/dunkers today.

Kobe, TMac, Wade, LeBron, Vince, Melo......no way would Jordan SEPERATE himself from that pack.

Much easier to be the G.O.A.T. going up against Craig Ehlo, Dennis Johnson, Byron Scott, Jeff Malone, Gerald Wilkens, etc. than today's players.

The Jordan "Legacy" = RIGHT PLACE, RIGHT TIME

Wait, wait -- so most people feel that Kobe is the best perimeter player in the league (say around 70-85% of people), but Jordan, a player superior to Kobe, wouldn't be viewed as the best perimeter player by even a great number of people (95+%)? What are you smoking? Same holds for "best player" all inclusive.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

The difference between Lebron James and Air Jordan is Jordan is the ultimate competitor. I seen some of Michael Jordan's game in the 1990's and he can adapt to any situation and any defender crossing his paths like John Starks, Gary Payton and Penny Hardaway.

Lebron James needs to develop his killer instict and be much prefer in every game that he will played.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
he cannot separate himself from D-Wade...Jordan had no equal in his prime and that added a lot to his legacy but I dont see Lebron ever distancing himself from D-Wade....


So does he has to distance himself to be the next MJ(dont think it will happen) or can he just be on the same level as 2 or 3 guys.

Also can he distance himself from Wade? in the future???from Kobe while he is still in his prime???
There will never be another MJ. Ever. Ever. Get over it. Lebron James is Lebron James, he will make his own legacy, and no other player will do exactly what MJ did, because every player is different. Get that through your heads people.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

lebron is magic without aids
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:50 PM   #41
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckblaze
If Jordan 12-15 years removed from his physical peak in a stage of his life he had to be all skills and could barely even dunk could put up 25/6/5 in a league that had basically every current great player aside from Lebron and Wade how is an equally skilled but far more athletic Jordan going to fail to dominate?

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Old 06-19-2007, 03:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
This is an old quote by blaze that I like to bring up for slobbering dolts like Poseidon who try to pull the "Jordan couldn't do it today!!" nonsense.

That's not what I said IDIOT. Your reading and comprehension skills need some fine tuning.

Last edited by Poseidon : 06-19-2007 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJellen
lebron is magic without aids

Dunno why, but I found this to be funny as hell.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:01 PM   #44
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
There will never be another MJ. Ever. Ever. Get over it. Lebron James is Lebron James, he will make his own legacy, and no other player will do exactly what MJ did, because every player is different. Get that through your heads people.
Shrunk the text size a bit but it still makes me go
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:20 PM   #45
Knoe Itawl
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Default Re: Can Lebron be the Next MJ if...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon
That's not what I said IDIOT. Your reading and comprehension skills need some fine tuning.

You said:

Michael Jordan is the beneficiary of playing in an era with limited competition in his position.

Which is a round about way of saying that Jordan wouldn't be the same in today's league, simp.

Not that it matters, blaze's post shut your "duh, I love Kobe, duh" ass down anyway. Unless you care to share what you disagree with about it.

Last edited by Knoe Itawl : 06-19-2007 at 04:24 PM.
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