Why couldn't Lebron win 70 games and have several years as the dominant favorite?

[Hey Yo]

LeBron statpadding while winning 3 games out of 15 is not impressive. You are some losers. LeBron picks his teams like he is in a rec league then has the front office change everything around if the team isn't good enough and he still loses most of the time.

LOL @ this Jordan stan bitching about other players allegedly getting special treatment from the front office. The majority of MJ's career was nothing but preferential treatment from Daddy Stern.

[Koresh]

Stop arguing with this asshole 3ball. He didn't watch Jordan play. He didn't watch the Heatles era, which is obvious because he keeps saying LeBron doesn't or can't play off-ball, but he has. There's no point beating a dead horse. He has documents of pre-written rebuttals and you guys keeping feed him. Just stop. He doesn't want or watch the modern NBA. Since the media began putting LeBron in the GOAT conversation, 3ball and Bruce Blitz went ape shit trying to discredit LeBron the first chance they get for a few years. I don't get why these threads are opened. They are the same tired arguments just with different titles and agendas.

I am really tired of the "LeBron's teams didn't have ball movement or he should have scored 5 more points and his team would have won." All this suboptimal basketball crap. Basketball is a team sport. Championships are team accomplishments. No one is going to care about finals losses. All will be said how many rings you won because you are judged by your overall career resume. "Sorry, LeBron, you lost X times in the finals, so we can't put you in the HOF." Shut the **** up, 3ball.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Stop arguing with this asshole 3ball. He didn't watch Jordan play. He didn't watch the Heatles era, which is obvious because he keeps saying LeBron doesn't or can't play off-ball, but he has. There's no point beating a dead horse.

It's not about convincing him, it's about convincing others whose minds aren't made up yet. Just let these false assertions and narratives go unrebutted and people might get drawn into the idiocy.

[3ball]

James never had the ball more on a per minute basis than his point guard in the years that data was available, so there were many, many plays when he was off ball. He's never brought it up the floor every time or even most of the time. Their default play style was to have others try to get things going early. The Heat had a system and it wasn't to just have James initiate the offense every play as you seem to think.

You are trying trying to talk about something you have no clue about because you didn't watch the games. You are just parroting false narratives you heard from others and didn't bother to check for accuracy.

This is after Miami, but shows LeBron's off ball play. He was more active off ball in Miami.

https://youtu.be/jA7nFXH6R_4

There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... [COLOR="Navy"]these are all statistical facts[/COLOR], i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I don't care when you started trolling box scores to make stuff up that doesn't reflect what is happening on the floor. You can't grasp the basic concept that more goes into team assist numbers than one player. You refuse to look at other potential causes for that low number like whether the other guys are finishing open looks or creating open looks for others. The end result is a false narrative that doesn't reflect how things actually played out on the floor.

When LeBron passes to Joel "worst hands I've ever seen" Anthony who is wide open at the basket and he can't finish team assists go down.

When LeBron cuts and is wide open under the basket and Jordan Clarkson decides he'd rather iso his man and brick multiple attempts instead of feeding James, team assists go down.

When Irving gets tunnel vision isoing his man, team assists go down.

When Chris Bosh looks hopeless against old man Duncan, team assists go down.

When No Clue Lue is standing around dumbstruck and has no idea for a system other than "play faster" team assists go down.

When Kyle Korver who is supposed to be a three point spot up specialist cant hit a wide open three to save the game, team assists go down.

When JR Smith dribbles out the clock thinking they have the lead, team assists go down.

When Tristan Thompson gets the ball and can't make up his mind what to do with it, team assists go down.

The Cavs with the literal worst roster in the league made the finals, but James is why they don't have a bunch of assists.

The Lakers had no discernable effective system before James and now that James is out they are the worst offense in the league, but James is the problem.

James' team had more assists than Wade's team before and after they played together, but James drove down team assists.

James' team had more assists than Irving's before and after they played together, but James is the problem.

Get the picture yet? James is way better than many players who've been key pieces in great systems. If a great system hasn't come into place it's probably not because the best player on the team can't function off ball. He has the skillset to play a role similar to Pippen or Draymond or Parker, only a much better version of those guys. There is nothing about his skillset the prevents a system from functioning.

But please blabber on some more about box scores instead of what's actually going on out there on the floor during the games you haven't even watched. I'm sure you can far more accurately talk about games you don't watch than people who watched them.

[knicksman]

Lebron is like NBA. Great ratings but sacrifices integrity to get those ratings. Is it worth it? Well theres a reason why nba is now just 3rd most popular league. Couldnt even beat a boring sport in baseball.

Lebron is like that. Lebron has great stats but sacrifices team ball to get his. Hes a prime example of "you may have won the battle but lost the war." Thats why id rather have kobe over him. Coz kobe might have the lesser stats but thats expected coz hes playing within a system. Hes playing in a winning system.

[tamaraw08]

There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... [COLOR="Navy"]these are all statistical facts[/COLOR], i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.

What a load of crap, Cherry picking again for like few hundred times over and over rant like a broken record.
Lebron with Kyrie were top 3 on offense the 3 years they were together, when Kyrie left, Cavs were still 5TH BEST, if his team was in the bottom half then yes you have a point.
2016 finals, Cavs had a ORTG OF 109 beating a mighty GSW, so freaking what?
2017 finals, Cavs even INCREASED their ORGT TO 114.6 with 21.6 assists SO YOU REALLY WANT TO CRY ABOUT LOW TEAM ASSISTS?
COMPARE THAT TO 1998 FINALS BULLS had a LOWER ORTG OF 105.5 WITH JUST 18 ASSISTS-LOWER THAN LEBRON'S TEAM.
Should Lebron fans stoop to your level and nitpick on why MJ didn't make enough 3's or NONE OF HIS TEAMMATES HAD CAREER BEST IN POINTS AND ATTEMPTS when they played with him?

If you have valid points about why MJ is better Lebron, then bring it maybe I will agree with you but not this pathetic one ok?

[RealSkipBayless]

All those scrimmage games to the finals and getting to face an opponent who just got out of a bloodbath WCF each year, still 3/9.

[tamaraw08]

There's plenty of highlights showing Westbrook finishing plays off-ball - that doesn't make him an off-ball player no matter how much his fanboys try to sell it.. he still holds the ball a PG-level, with a low PG assisted rate, and low team assists, just like lebron... The stats back up the obvious eye test and consensus that lebron is a ball-dominator and not an off-ball player.

Btw, for all we know, i created the lebron off-ball narrative. I've been talking about this in earnest since 2013.

You just don't know my history. You should look at my old threads from 2014 and 2015.. I'm destroying lebron with time of possession stats, his low assisted rate (PG assisted rate), and low team assists

I've railed on about how teammates have less time with the ball alongside lebron than other forwards, thereby lowering their assists and the team's.. also, lebron's PG style turns a normally high assisted position (forward) into a low-assisted one (2nd PG), thus lowering the assist capacity of the team... [COLOR="Navy"]these are all statistical facts[/COLOR], i.e. his pg time of possession, his low pg assisted rate, and his low assist teams..

^^^ you can't refute that math.. no "off-ball player" has those stats
.

What a load of crap, Cherry picking again for like few hundred times over and over rant like a broken record.
Lebron with Kyrie were top 3 on offense the 3 years they were together, when Kyrie left, Cavs were still 5TH BEST, if his team was in the bottom half then yes you have a point.
2016 finals, Cavs had a ORTG OF 109 beating a mighty GSW, so freaking what?
2017 finals, Cavs even INCREASED their ORGT TO 114.6 with 21.6 assists SO YOU REALLY WANT TO CRY ABOUT LOW TEAM ASSISTS?
COMPARE THAT TO 1998 FINALS BULLS had a LOWER ORTG OF 105.5 WITH JUST 18 ASSISTS-LOWER THAN LEBRON'S TEAM.
Should Lebron fans stoop to your level and nitpick on why MJ didn't make enough 3's or [COLOR="Red"]NONE OF HIS TEAMMATES HAD CAREER BEST IN POINTS AND ATTEMPTS when they played with him[/COLOR]?
Why? maybe because he takes too many shots than needed even when BJ Armstrong was red hot from the 3pt area?

If you have valid points about why MJ is better Lebron, then bring it maybe I will agree with you but not this pathetic one ok?

[PickernRoller]

3-ball got this nikka seething....

[Walk on Water]

Only in today's mickey mouse league does a player get props for mostly losing... i.e. beating warriors 1 in 4 times, or the spurs 1 in 3, including 3 record blowout defeats and 2 sweeps

So lebron gets destroyed, except a couple one-off flukes, which happen to everyone.. ur praising lebron for losing

any great player will beat a team 1 in 4 times.. it's not impressive and instead the biggest knock on his resume.. again, you don't get props for losing
.

So he should get props for suspending Green and barely winning when he

[Walk on Water]

All those scrimmage games to the finals and getting to face an opponent who just got out of a bloodbath WCF each year, still 3/9.

And the funny thing is he