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Old 06-11-2007, 09:22 PM   #16
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I'm not as bothered by the lack of quality screens as I am by the fact that no one seems to understand how to seal anyone after a screen.
One of the newer rule interpretations that I didn't like was the overenforcing of the call on the dribble hand off, or circle rub where the the guard runs off of the rump of a guy at the high post who's facing the hoop. An offensive guy can't stick his rump out toward a defender running dead at him without getting an offensive foul called, but if he's going to the hoop, he can hurl himself at a guy, throw the ball over the photographers row without ever looking at the hoop, and walk to the line for two free throws before the whistle even blows.

So with your basketball knowledge what would you do if you were the Cav's to defend the Spurs ?
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

I love teams working together, so I'm a big fan of off-ball movement and off-ball defense also. I am coaching my church team for the first time and I am finding it really hard to teach off-ball fundamentals. I only had a few months to prepare this team and initially I wanted to teach them some off-ball basics, like setting screens away from the ball, and playing off-ball defense on the weak side and playing deny defense on the strong side. I thought teaching them these basics would be enough for them to play freely and still able to do well. Eventually, I just gave up and started to practice more 2-3 zone and set plays. Off-ball fundamentals is just hard to teach because it requires players to be unselfish, patient, and willing to think ahead, and I think it's hard to find these types of players.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Get post Da Ko King you are right off ball movement is a very important part of the game. It could be utilized more by just about every team in the NBA. It has so many up sides like the person off the ball gets free and it causes movement to confuse the defense for other match-ups and it makes room for the person with the ball. I would love to see move plays off the ball. You would need a good playmaker to run the plays though.
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockets(T-mac)
Get post Da Ko King you are right off ball movement is a very important part of the game. It could be utilized more by just about every team in the NBA. It has so many up sides like the person off the ball gets free and it causes movement to confuse the defense for other match-ups and it makes room for the person with the ball. I would love to see move plays off the ball. You would need a good playmaker to run the plays though.
Glad to see you and others showing interest.

What I'm speaking about aren't actual plays though. I'm talking about a player effectively using a screen set for him when he does not have the ball.

I have a sneaking suspicion you like Tracy McGrady so I'll use him for an example. :)

Tracy is on the left low post. Juwon Howard is on the left high post. Juwon comes to set a "down screen".

Proper usage of the screen would have Tracy cut tightly off Juwon's body. Tracy would either cut shoulder to shoulder or shoulder to hip off Juwon. Coming off the screen tight like that removes the chance for a defender to just run in between the cutter and screener to defend.

Once he gets to Juwon's shoulder Tracy would look over his inside shoulder to get his read off the defender. Tracy then counters the defense by making the correct cut.

The beauty of proper off ball movement is the screener naturally gets open just as often as the cutter does, if not more.
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

I agree with off ball movement being very important. I think it is an innate skill that some people have. But I think it can still be taught. But I still think the ones with talent will always be better than the average guy.
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
So with your basketball knowledge what would you do if you were the Cav's to defend the Spurs ?

I think the key to defending this Spur team is to try and wreak a little havoc. The idea of matching up isn't going to work, because they're going to out execute you eventually, so the screaming for Boobie to play and Hughes to sit is a little overstated to me. I'd run some sort of constant doubler off of Bowen. Preferably Lebron, as he has the size to bother almost anyone. And I'd switch who I was going after. I'd probably run him a Ginobili more than Duncan even. Ginobili is more inclined to make a mistake under pressure. If they lose to Bowen hitting threes off of the second pass, so be it.
Also, something almost everyone does is double almost immediately after Duncan gets the ball. It's far more effective to go at him after he puts the ball on the floor. It works exceptionally against Dirk too. I don't know why more teams don't run that delayed double team in this league.
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

MVP

a)Best player in the league (ie. Duncan)
b)One of the top 5 players in league on the best team (ie. Duncan, Nash, Dirk)
c)Best performer in the league (ie. Bryant)

?
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Thorpe - I'm SO with you on the delayed double. Doubling a post (unless he just has so sense of how to deal with the double) right away is often bad because he's already got the ball in position to pass. If you wait for the dribble, he's got to recollect the ball with two guys there before he makes a move or gets rid of it.
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
Thorpe - I'm SO with you on the delayed double. Doubling a post (unless he just has so sense of how to deal with the double) right away is often bad because he's already got the ball in position to pass. If you wait for the dribble, he's got to recollect the ball with two guys there before he makes a move or gets rid of it.

If you wait too long however, the guards will cut and backdoor you all day if they're any good such as Parker.
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:24 PM   #25
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Yeah, I'm not really concerned with how long you wait for the double, as I am with letting the player with the ball dictate it. When a big puts the ball on the floor, it's a long time to get it down and up. A lot can change in that time, and it means that the reads he has to make need to be more instinctive, which isn't always a big guys strength. You also need the cutters to make similar decisions, so everyone is on the same page.

One thing I've seen done, is a set rotation from the weakside. Say you're going to blindly double Duncan with whoever's guarding Ginobili as soon as he puts it on the floor. A set play may be called where the defender who's got the next player to the weakside of Ginobili may be called on to run immediately to Ginobili on that same dribble that the double team is coming on. It forces to big to not just read who's coming at him, but the entire floor. We used to call it a Zebra, which came from ZB for Zone Blitz, when I was in college. The trick is really just to mix it up. No one thing is going to work all the time.
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
Yeah, I'm not really concerned with how long you wait for the double, as I am with letting the player with the ball dictate it. When a big puts the ball on the floor, it's a long time to get it down and up. A lot can change in that time, and it means that the reads he has to make need to be more instinctive, which isn't always a big guys strength. You also need the cutters to make similar decisions, so everyone is on the same page.

One thing I've seen done, is a set rotation from the weakside. Say you're going to blindly double Duncan with whoever's guarding Ginobili as soon as he puts it on the floor. A set play may be called where the defender who's got the next player to the weakside of Ginobili may be called on to run immediately to Ginobili on that same dribble that the double team is coming on. It forces to big to not just read who's coming at him, but the entire floor. We used to call it a Zebra, which came from ZB for Zone Blitz, when I was in college. The trick is really just to mix it up. No one thing is going to work all the time.

How many times did someone fall asleep?
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:30 AM   #27
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

This is without a doubt the best thread that has appeared on the new forums. Me thinks all the X and O stuff has scared the idiots with no idea out of here.

I still remember facing zones as a kid(basically all I faced until I was 13) and they were fun because there was always a weak link that you could break down. If it was a guard you were basically going just waltz to the free throw line all game for the And1s. Used to be fun, it was funny, I never played on a team that ran zones primarily so I never felt comfortable in them or more to the point I felt like I was leaving too much to my teammates and it minimized my gambling instincts.

I guess that kind of forms my opinion on the two defenses. You play the zone to hide something, you play man to highlight something. For instance, the Spurs mostly play a man system because they have Bowen and it highlights Duncan's exceptional instincts and help defense. The Suns however play a lot of zone so that they can hide Nash and Amare's lack of interest in defense with Marion's athleticism.

That said, the NBA has a neutered version of zone defense anyway, it is basically zone defense that is not allowed to defend the keyway. Which is the basis of a good zone defense. Just another Stern related NBA ****up.

Quote:
a)Best player in the league (ie. Duncan)
b)One of the top 5 players in league on the best team (ie. Duncan, Nash, Dirk)
c)Best performer in the league (ie. Bryant)

It is in order. If a) Is injured and thus doesnt play 65+ games you go to b). Nash is not a top 5 player though, thats a bone I have to pick. He is a great performer but Nash is just a very good PG doing his job.

On that matter... My question... Is the center position or the PG position worse right now compared to the 90s?
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:08 AM   #28
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippos
MVP

a)Best player in the league (ie. Duncan)
b)One of the top 5 players in league on the best team (ie. Duncan, Nash, Dirk)
c)Best performer in the league (ie. Bryant)

?
My view on MVP is it should go to a player who is unquestionably one of the top guys in the NBA in both performance (stats) and impact on the floor (whats the stats aren't saying). I also look at what his team is with him, what they are without him, and how other NBA teams would function with him replacing a their bonafide all star that plays his position.

A bit hard to explain fully without making a KBlaze lengthy post but look at it this way; two years ago I would have vote for LeBron James to win the award over Steve Nash but I also had no problem with Nash winning it. Nash wasn't my vote but he did deserve to be a candidate.
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoGiTaLiA1
This is without a doubt the best thread that has appeared on the new forums. Me thinks all the X and O stuff has scared the idiots with no idea out of here.

I still remember facing zones as a kid(basically all I faced until I was 13) and they were fun because there was always a weak link that you could break down. If it was a guard you were basically going just waltz to the free throw line all game for the And1s. Used to be fun, it was funny, I never played on a team that ran zones primarily so I never felt comfortable in them or more to the point I felt like I was leaving too much to my teammates and it minimized my gambling instincts.

I guess that kind of forms my opinion on the two defenses. You play the zone to hide something, you play man to highlight something. For instance, the Spurs mostly play a man system because they have Bowen and it highlights Duncan's exceptional instincts and help defense. The Suns however play a lot of zone so that they can hide Nash and Amare's lack of interest in defense with Marion's athleticism.

That said, the NBA has a neutered version of zone defense anyway, it is basically zone defense that is not allowed to defend the keyway. Which is the basis of a good zone defense. Just another Stern related NBA ****up.



It is in order. If a) Is injured and thus doesnt play 65+ games you go to b). Nash is not a top 5 player though, thats a bone I have to pick. He is a great performer but Nash is just a very good PG doing his job.

On that matter... My question... Is the center position or the PG position worse right now compared to the 90s?
This is amazingly hard to pick cause both are so fundamentally flawed right now. Many PG's can't make a simple post entry pass anymore. Many C's can't do anything with the ball if they catch the pass.

If pressed for an answer I'd say the C position.

While there are certain fundamental skills they have all lacked each year there is at least one PG to enter the draft with enough skill and smarts to continue hiding the decline in PG play from the general public. With the exception of the 2000 Draft of course.

With the C position the top prospect always has major holes in his game and has to get over-rated for people to buy into him.

A few years ago we were supposed to ignore Dwight Howard's lack of skill and understanding. Then it was Andrew Bogut and the fact that his back to the basket game is average at best and his passing ability isn't anything special unless he's in the high post. Don't even get me started on the love affair with Greg Oden this year.

The talent at both spots in declining but its way more obvious at the C position.
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:28 AM   #30
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Default Re: Get to know my views on the game....

On that center/PG question... Which is having more of an adverse effect on the game? I think that the decline in PG play is the main reason the league as a whole is becoming hard to watch(As far as the basketball side of that issue goes anyway). But not having any bigs of a high quality means there are very few teams capable of building the true and tested inside/out thing.
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