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Old 05-12-2007, 09:30 AM   #31
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Nellie is overrated.
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:09 AM   #32
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Nelson outcoached the hell out of Avery Johnson. Since when does a 67 win team have to "adjust" their starting lineup for an 8th seed? WTF? Avery was scared, and he still is playing the role of Nelson's ticked off little brother, standing in his shadow.
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
I predicted Warriors in five, no bandwagon or surprise from me.. other than Fab's surprisingly accurate predictions.



Well, lets take a look at the lineup of the "Nellie era" and determine this:

PG- Steve Nash
SG- Michael Finley
SF- Adrian Griffin/Antawn Jamison
PF- Dirk Nowitzsk
C- Sean Bradley/Raef Lafrentz

Now tell me again who out there is a good defender without laughing? Exactly, the Mavs were built then to do one thing: run. Nellie is the BEST at working with the talent he has and adjusting his style to go along with the team. Kind of the polar opposite of a Larry Brown.

The fact they lost lots of close games during the Nellie era was because they didn't have a single defender to put on the opposing star, whether it be Webber, Shaq, Bryant, or even Peja; no one on the roster had the ability of even containing these players.

At this point Dirk was still a project. He had talent: the ability to shoot and fadeaway over defenders. Nellie said right as stepped down as head coach that Dirk was finally entering his prime. Dirk learned how to rebound and play defense because of Nellie, not Avery or any other joke(Cuban? )




That's just simply not true. Nellie was working with the media proclaimed "bust" after his second year in the league. HE was the one that was developing him into the player. Ask Dirk himself, Avery didn't teach sh*t in his couple of years.

I also like the stereotype that Nellie's teams don't play d. That theory was just blown out of the water in the Mavs series don't you think? He had them shooting sub 40% much of the time. Again, he simply works with the talent he has and maximizes it.



Nellie had to go through tougher competition for another thing.


That's just laughable. A coach that doesn't know how to make adjustments or simply compete with faster paced teams is supposed to "win" the finals?

No.



That is so true. The Mavs today, are nothing like the Mavs when Nelson was coaching. There is what....one or two players remaining from that team? With a unit like the guys the Mavs have now, I'm sure Nelson would have gotten them at least into the Conference Finals.


Nelson is a superior coach, Avery is the lucky lotto winner who stumbled upon a team with a franchise player entering his prime. Throw in the drafting of Josh Howard and getting rid of some of the dead weight, and its no surprise to see them improve, but how much did they really improve under Avery?

A. Get knocked out by the Suns
B. Choke, get knocked out by the Heat
C. Big Choke, knocked out by the 8th seed

Is that supposed to be improvement, especially considering how much more playoff ready the lineup is.

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Old 05-12-2007, 11:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

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Originally Posted by TMacsOneGoodEye
Pretty much sums it up.

Nellie used Dirk as a gimmick. Avery used Dirk as a franchise player.

Unfortunately, Dirk turns into a pumpkin as soon as the clock strikes post-season. How is that Avery's fault? He made everyone take the Mavs seriously.

I agree. Avery has a more sound and structured system than Nellie had, and as a result, people take the Mavericks much more seriously than in the past. I'd go as far as saying that Avery utilized Dirk's skills much better than Nellie did.
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:06 AM   #35
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I agree. Avery has a more sound and structured system than Nellie had, and as a result, people take the Mavericks much more seriously than in the past. I'd go as far as saying that Avery utilized Dirk's skills much better than Nellie did.

Really? Is this why they just got blown away by an 8th seed? Because Avery has such a better system than Nellie and utilizes Dirk better?
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Old 05-12-2007, 11:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy
Avery's offense needs a lot of work. I love his fire and passion, though.

People talked smack about their defense during the series, but frankly: the Mavericks played scared. All of them. They were giving soft double teams, were a second behind to every single loose ball, and didn't play with enough authority.
Who's fault is that they were playing scared? Avery is "easily the best motivation coach on the planet" so why are his players coming out scared?
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Old 05-12-2007, 12:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Well, lets take a look at the lineup of the "Nellie era" and determine this:

PG- Steve Nash
SG- Michael Finley
SF- Adrian Griffin/Antawn Jamison
PF- Dirk Nowitzsk
C- Sean Bradley/Raef Lafrentz

Now tell me again who out there is a good defender without laughing? Exactly, the Mavs were built then to do one thing: run. Nellie is the BEST at working with the talent he has and adjusting his style to go along with the team. Kind of the polar opposite of a Larry Brown.
you're acting like Nellie was handed this team and that's all he could do with it. that is not the case. Nellie MADE this team because that's what he wants. he doesn't want a title. he wants to score a lot. he wants to have fun. he could easily have made moves for a playoff-type team but either he doesn't know how to construct one or it doesn't interest him. either way... he's not a championship caliber coach.

Quote:
I think the major point that GeeWiz overlooked is that during Don Nelson's stint with Dallas their competition in the West was actually tougher.
I realize that, however explain to me how with less talent (only one all-star) this team is more suited to a championship.

I don't really feel like going into why Avery's style is more suited to a championship than Nellie's is. Avery's got a high post offense with cutters, order, and smart play with a focus on teamwork and defense. Nellie's got a run-and-shoot 3s defense with defense being an absolute joke- I can remember Nash letting his guy blow by him and literally lining up to receive the inbounds pass so he could quickly score on the other end before the guy even scored. cmon.

if Nellie's Mavs played today they wouldn't make the Finals like last year's Mavs did. they'd do better against the Warriors but can anyone argue with me that the Mavs could have taken ANY other team in the playoffs easily except maybe the Jazz (again because of matchups, Dirk on Boozer)? these Mavs are a great team that had a crucial thing missing but if they had to play the Clippers first round I could definitely see them winning the title this year. besides, it's the players who choked this series, not the coach. when your franchise player is shooting 2-13 in a closeout, there's no way you can coach around that, you're finished.

and what's this about Avery's offense needing work? you're judging off ONE SERIES that he will learn from. did you watch them all regular season? I can remember thinking, "how can this team possibly lose?" because every single trip down the court they got either a shot in the paint or an open jumpshot. every single time down, against every single team.

Avery got outcoached by Nellie but that is how you learn. his offense is just fine. the Mavs aren't THAT talented on that end yet they get a quality shot almost every possession and have a high-post focus which I believe to be the best setup there is.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

The Mavs face weaker competition than they faced with Nelson. It's really that simply.

The Kings team that bumped them in the first of '03-'04 and the 2nd of '01-'02 would be a front runner for the title this year.

'02-'03 they lost in the West Finals to San Antonio. They were taken to the brink by a Chris Webber-less Kings team and a Blazers team that ran of out gas in Game 7.

I know it doesn't seem like it but the Mavs are essentially the same group Don Nelson had. They simply aren't running into competition as tough as before as early as they did under Nelson.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #39
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

avery got the team to the finals, something that nellie never did.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:39 PM   #40
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

geewiz knows what he is talking about. Well said.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
I know it doesn't seem like it but the Mavs are essentially the same group Don Nelson had.
explain to me then why they're one of the best defensive teams in the league. defense wins championships right?
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:02 PM   #42
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
explain to me then why they're one of the best defensive teams in the league. defense wins championships right?
One of the top defensive teams in the league? Didn't look like that in the playoffs.

there's a difference between slowing down the game and being a good defensive team. Avery's is a slow, give it to dirk, and let josh howard play d style.
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:04 PM   #43
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild orchid
Nellie is overrated.
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:06 PM   #44
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

How many NBA Championship does Nellie have won? Another question how many teams in the NBA he took into the NBA FINALS?
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Old 05-12-2007, 02:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23
How many NBA Championship does Nellie have won? Another question how many teams in the NBA he took into the NBA FINALS?
is this the only thing you got guangmoreno? I know you have trouble with english, but come on. This had to be addressed at least 15 times.
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