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Old 05-12-2007, 01:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeWiz15
I realize everyone loves the Warriors and is riding Don Nelson's nuts and everything, but this is getting out of hand.
I predicted Warriors in five, no bandwagon or surprise from me.. other than Fab's surprisingly accurate predictions.

Quote:
flash back to the end of the Don Nelson era. what did this team do? win a lot of regular season games and then bomb in the playoffs. what was Dirk? he was a soft ass Euro jumpshooter. what were the Mavs? they were a no-defense playing joke who nobody took seriously in the playoffs.

Well, lets take a look at the lineup of the "Nellie era" and determine this:

PG- Steve Nash
SG- Michael Finley
SF- Adrian Griffin/Antawn Jamison
PF- Dirk Nowitzsk
C- Sean Bradley/Raef Lafrentz

Now tell me again who out there is a good defender without laughing? Exactly, the Mavs were built then to do one thing: run. Nellie is the BEST at working with the talent he has and adjusting his style to go along with the team. Kind of the polar opposite of a Larry Brown.

The fact they lost lots of close games during the Nellie era was because they didn't have a single defender to put on the opposing star, whether it be Webber, Shaq, Bryant, or even Peja; no one on the roster had the ability of even containing these players.

At this point Dirk was still a project. He had talent: the ability to shoot and fadeaway over defenders. Nellie said right as stepped down as head coach that Dirk was finally entering his prime. Dirk learned how to rebound and play defense because of Nellie, not Avery or any other joke(Cuban? )
Quote:
make fun of the Mavs all you want... make fun of Avery all you want cause he did not coach this series well. but Nellie did not make Dirk. Nellie made a soft who scores a lot; Avery made a LEGITIMATE contender, and a LEGITIMATE top 5 player. Nellie traded for redundant players because all he can do is push the ball and shoot 3s and score a lot; Avery knows how to construct, again, a LEGITIMATE contending team. despite the EPIC choke that was this first round, the Mavs are still any way you slice it a more serious playoff threat than they have EVER been especially in the Nellie days.




That's just simply not true. Nellie was working with the media proclaimed "bust" after his second year in the league. HE was the one that was developing him into the player. Ask Dirk himself, Avery didn't teach sh*t in his couple of years.

I also like the stereotype that Nellie's teams don't play d. That theory was just blown out of the water in the Mavs series don't you think? He had them shooting sub 40% much of the time. Again, he simply works with the talent he has and maximizes it.

Quote:
these Warriors are my favorite team since the pre-Carter Nets. it's strictly a bandwagon thing but I love how they play. and Avery is just what this PARTICULAR team needs. the Warriors are a bunch of individual players who are all cold hearted sons of *****es that just need DIRECTION. they know how to play, they know how to defend, they've got killer instinct to spare and want to go out there and slit some throats; they just need direction, a system, and a guiding hand to bring all that athletic and otherwise talent together. THAT is what Nellie is great at. most teams however do not have that luxury. and rest assured... that is not enough for a serious contender. I love these Warriors but they are not winning the Finals. Nellie will never win the Finals.

Nellie had to go through tougher competition for another thing.

Quote:
Avery, however, will. I can all but promise it. given equal talent to start, I would pick Avery to coach a legit championship team over Nellie in a second.

thoughts?
That's just laughable. A coach that doesn't know how to make adjustments or simply compete with faster paced teams is supposed to "win" the finals?

No.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Avery Johnson is not all that. He talks a big game, and he got dropped into a great position, but the guy has run out of answers in the playoffs three years in a row now, against inferior teams each time. (Remember, the Suns lost Joe Johnson in the middle of that series.) It remains to be seen whether Avery can teach the subtleties of the game and/or learn the art of making mid-course adjustments, or whether he's just another John Lucas without the drugs.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMacsOneGoodEye
Inside joke. On this forum.

Nice for the Warriors fans to finally join us.

And LATE 60's?!! You were watching ball then? During the 60's?

I bet your avatar totally TRIPS you out. Whoa man.

Yes, late 60's. I remember Nate Thurmond, Clyde Lee, Rick Barry, Jeff Mullin, etc... They were a great team back then. Thurmond had a great outside shot and was an unbelievable defensive player. Loved watching him play Wilt and then Kareem. Damn. I'm feeling old now. haha
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:23 AM   #19
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

I never quite got the thing with Dirk being considered a bust in his first season. It was a 50 game season. He started kinda slow. But he put up 16/12 in his second game. 15/9 in his third. he had exactly 2 bad games that season where he played 30 minutes. in hi others he had:

15
22/7
11/5
22/3/3
13/9
17/5
29/8
12/13/4

What is he supposed to do in 4-10 minutes?

He never looked that bad to me. I only watched them maybe 3-4 times that year but I dont remember thinking "That guy sucks....".
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Now tell me again who out there is a good defender without laughing? Exactly, the Mavs were built then to do one thing: run. Nellie is the BEST at working with the talent he has and adjusting his style to go along with the team.
Who built the goddam team?
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:31 AM   #21
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Who built the goddam team?
Nellie was in control of drafting and scouting. GM was responsible for adding some free agents.

For example, Nellie was vehemently against the Antoine Walker trade. That went through anyway.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:32 AM   #22
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
Nellie was in control of drafting and scouting. GM was responsible for adding some free agents.

For example, Nellie was vehemently against the Antoine Walker trade.
Didn't know that. I thought Nellie was the GM, and in control of all of those things. Meh.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxNeXuSxX
For example, Nellie was vehemently against the Antoine Walker trade. That went through anyway.
That was a nice trade--Mavs wouldn't be where they are today without it. Only problem was, it screwed the team over for a year.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Nelson was the head coach and GM according to everything I can find.

Hes been both coach and Gm or president of basketball operation of every single team hes had since 1976. Possible exceptions being the 3/4ths season with the Knicks and the current Warriors. dont think hes currently the Warriors GM or president.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Nelson was the head coach and GM according to everything I can find.

Hes been both coach and Gm or president of basketball operation of every single team hes had since 1976.
Really? I always heard he was purely the scout/draft responsible on the Mavs. I'll have to look that back up.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

I cant say exactly what calls he made. But he signed as coach and GM. And he was still officially GM till he stepped down at the end of the 06 season. He was GM for a month or two after he quit as coach.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Nellie was the GM early on.. but he dragged a team out of the gutter and people are complaining they weren't good enough? Look how many coaches couldn't resurrect the Warriors.. it wasn't because they didn't have talent..

But Nellie didn't have total control either.. Cuban made a lot fo decisions too.. and he wanted to win now.. Nellie didn't have the luxury of drafting and winning later.. he had to win NOW.. or he was gone..

Dirk is so good now you cna put any one dimensional defensive stiff next to him and he can make it work.. it wasn't always like that.. just for the fact he got no respect from officials -- and he still doesn't..

If Avery did anyhting for Dirk that was it.. politics. he panders to the league to meet their expectations.. I don't respect that..

edit: Cuban started making most the GMing decisions around the time Raef was signed to a huge deal.. after that Nellie just made draft picks because he is such a great talent evaluator..

Last edited by FabCasablancas : 05-12-2007 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FabCasablancas
Nellie was the GM early on.. but he dragged a team out of the gutter and people are complaining they weren't good enough? Look how many coaches couldn't resurrect the Warriors.. it wasn't because they didn't have talent..

But Nellie didn't have total control either.. Cuban made a lot fo decisions too.. and he wanted to win now.. Nellie didn't have the luxury of drafting and winning later.. he had to win NOW.. or he was gone..
Is it Cuban then that was making trades Nellie opposed? I know this happened, dammit@!
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Old 05-12-2007, 05:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
Who built the goddam team?
nellie was a gm in name only. donnie nelson (nellie's son) and cuban were the ones that really built the team. nellie was only the gm until the first 2-3 years that cuban owned the team and even then donnie was the one that pushed the mavs to draft dirk. sure, nellie has his fair stake in turning the mavs around, but if you're talking about the last 4-5 or so years of personnel moves, nellie wasn't big part of the process. desanga diop, was a pet project of one of the mavs assistant coaches (Sam Vincent i think). nellie actually favored marquis daniels a LOT more than josh howard.

credit nellie for pulling the mavs out of the doghouse and turning them into a legitimate 50 win team. credit avery/cuban/donnie for turning mavs into a legitimate title contenders (despite their choking ways).
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Old 05-12-2007, 08:42 AM   #30
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Default Re: I'm tired of this "Nellie made Dirk" stuff.

I think the major point that GeeWiz overlooked is that during Don Nelson's stint with Dallas their competition in the West was actually tougher.

Back then they had to worry about the Chris Webber Sacramento Kings, Kobe & Shaq Lakers, Scottie Pippen Trailblazers, and the San Antonio Spurs.

Now they only worry about the Spurs and the Phoenix Suns.
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