Antetokounmpo vs Wiggins and KAT vs AD

[FKAri]

The thing that worries me about Wiggins is I don't know if he has that superstar level feel for the game or the drive. His floor might be around Demar Derozan level. He has more potential than Giannis as a scorer tho. Giannis just doesn't have the scoring foundation one learns at a very young age. He has all the physical tools tho (including footwork and coordination which many so called athletic beasts lack).

I don't know what KAT's trajectory will be. It remains to be seen if he can take that next step to become an MVP caliber scorer. He doesn't have AD's astonishing perimeter skills and probably never will but neither did Tim Duncan.

[HurricaneKid]

Actually, even though Giannis looks better right now, he's more of a 2nd/3rd option type whereas Wiggins has the potential to turn into a legit 1st option.

Almost all legit first options get to the line often, and Wiggins in his second year has already learned to do that at a very high rate. Per36, he's actually getting sent to the line more than Durant and Lebron did in their second years. FTA is actually a great indicator on whether or not a player will develop into a legit first option.

Lebron, Wade, Durant, Melo all figured out how to get to the line often during their sophmore years. Parsons, Gay, Kawhi, and even PG (until this year)never figured out how to get to the line at a consistent rate, and almost no one considers these guys legit first options. Giannis is more efficient than Wiggins right now, but he's on pace to become more like the second set of players.

Wiggins needs more strength to go along with his moves. He's got a great spin move but needs to rely on finesse finishes because he's not strong enough yet. His shot also needs to improve, but I don't see why he can't develop into a solid shooter. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with his shot.

Wiggins is an inefficient chucker. His 2.8 asst/100poss with 28.0 usage is insane in its ball hoggedness. I mean you have to pass sometime. So a scorer without any court vision, who shoots at really bad rates and has ever since he came to the league, who has never avg less than 3.0 TIs. And you think he has some majestic upside?

I think there is a far better likelihood of Giannis being special at a pt forward than Wiggins being special as a primary ball handler. Worst case scenario Giannis is a far better Batum. And that floor is higher than I expect Wiggins to get.

And despite the defensive rep he has, Wiggins has been awful on that side of the ball. His best DRTG is 113. His current DRAPM is below guys like Morrow, Kevin Martin, that can't get on the floor because of their inability to stop anyone, and is basically worst in the league for wing starters. Meanwhile, Giannis is a defensive FREAK who can guard all 2-5s and some 1s.

[sundizz]

Wiggins is an inefficient chucker. His 2.8 asst/100poss with 28.0 usage is insane in its ball hoggedness. I mean you have to pass sometime. So a scorer without any court vision, who shoots at really bad rates and has ever since he came to the league, who has never avg less than 3.0 TIs. And you think he has some majestic upside?

I think there is a far better likelihood of Giannis being special at a pt forward than Wiggins being special as a primary ball handler. Worst case scenario Giannis is a far better Batum. And that floor is higher than I expect Wiggins to get.

And despite the defensive rep he has, Wiggins has been awful on that side of the ball. His best DRTG is 113. His current DRAPM is below guys like Morrow, Kevin Martin, that can't get on the floor because of their inability to stop anyone, and is basically worst in the league for wing starters. Meanwhile, Giannis is a defensive FREAK who can guard all 2-5s and some 1s.

Spoken like someone who doesn't watch the game/nor play the game. Wiggins has the most important skill in basketball - scoring. If you actually watch games you could see he doesn't chase stats at all. He simply tries to play the right way. It's his biggest flaw. He needs to be more creative and willing to make mistakes. However, he is still super young and other stuff is relatively easy to make statistical improvements in (look at KD for example).

[HurricaneKid]

Spoken like someone who doesn't watch the game/nor play the game. Wiggins has the most important skill in basketball - scoring. If you actually watch games you could see he doesn't chase stats at all. He simply tries to play the right way. It's his biggest flaw. He needs to be more creative and willing to make mistakes. However, he is still super young and other stuff is relatively easy to make statistical improvements in (look at KD for example).

This post is riddled with stupid.

Scoring without vision is useless. It means you aren't worthy of being a primary ball handler. And that's what he is. Tries to make the right play? Then why does Boogie avg 70% more assists? Why is he top 15ish in usage and tied with Zaza Pachulia for 112th in assists?

[HurricaneKid]

Giannis has now had TWO completely historically significant triple doubles in the last 4 games:

27/12/10/3/4 on >.700fg

18/17/11/4/2

He is the only player ever to pull off either of these statlines. Not youngest, ONLY. Not a bad week.

[Milbuck]

Spoken like someone who doesn't watch the game/nor play the game. Wiggins has the most important skill in basketball - scoring. If you actually watch games you could see he doesn't chase stats at all. He simply tries to play the right way. It's his biggest flaw. He needs to be more creative and willing to make mistakes. However, he is still super young and other stuff is relatively easy to make statistical improvements in (look at KD for example).

Uhh do you watch the games? Wiggins absolutely does not play the right way, dude is a horrible playmaker who impacts the game in no way outside of individual mediocre efficiency scoring. He puts garbage effort into rebounding, defense, has consistent mental/effort lapses, weak playmaking instincts. He puts up points but that scoring is completely negated by him being nothing at pretty much everything else.

[scm5]

This post is riddled with stupid.

Scoring without vision is useless. It means you aren't worthy of being a primary ball handler. And that's what he is. Tries to make the right play? Then why does Boogie avg 70% more assists? Why is he top 15ish in usage and tied with Zaza Pachulia for 112th in assists?

You obviously have seen very limited Timberwolves games and are just going off of stats.

You see Wiggins being inefficient, I see him going through a learning process with a very young squad and developing pretty well. He's 20 years old and the primary scoring option on a very young squad with a ball dominant point guard who can't shoot.

You see him putting up a low FG% because of his stats, I see him struggling because the Wolves have no shooters and no spacing. They're 28th in the league in 3 point shooting. Rubio's lack of a decent shot is a huge problem for the Wolves.

His passing will come in time. He currently has a 9.8% ast%. Cousins in his second season had a 9.5% ast%. Durant's was low coming into the league as well, and he played with PG's that were less ball dominant than Rubio.

[Milbuck]

You obviously have seen very limited Timberwolves games and are just going off of stats.

You see Wiggins being inefficient, I see him going through a learning process with a very young squad and developing pretty well. He's 20 years old and the primary scoring option on a very young squad with a ball dominant point guard who can't shoot.

You see him putting up a low FG% because of his stats, I see him struggling because the Wolves have no shooters and no spacing. They're 28th in the league in 3 point shooting. Rubio's lack of a decent shot is a huge problem for the Wolves.

His passing will come in time. He currently has a 9.8% ast%. Cousins in his second season had a 9.5% ast%. Durant's was low coming into the league as well, and he played with PG's that were less ball dominant than Rubio.

I watch a decent amount of TWolves games (mostly for KAT, dude is a monster), and no, Wiggins is really not a good passer in any way. His playmaking instincts are just not there, you can't go by assist% numbers. It has nothing to do with Rubio either, Wiggins is just not wired as a gifted passer. Rubio's "ball dominance" is one of the few reasons the TWolves even look like an NBA-caliber team.

[HurricaneKid]

You obviously have seen very limited Timberwolves games and are just going off of stats.

You see Wiggins being inefficient, I see him going through a learning process with a very young squad and developing pretty well. He's 20 years old and the primary scoring option on a very young squad with a ball dominant point guard who can't shoot.

You see him putting up a low FG% because of his stats, I see him struggling because the Wolves have no shooters and no spacing. They're 28th in the league in 3 point shooting. Rubio's lack of a decent shot is a huge problem for the Wolves.

His passing will come in time. He currently has a 9.8% ast%. Cousins in his second season had a 9.5% ast%. Durant's was low coming into the league as well, and he played with PG's that were less ball dominant than Rubio.

Then you watch your team through rose colored glasses. Comparing Wiggins' vision to a 20 year old C sounds just about right. But a playmaking wing should have a higher bar. Sadly, any reasonable bar would be woefully high for him.

Court vision is not something players improve on. He may very well become a better shooter over the years but he will never be an imaginative distributor the way Rubio and Giannis are.

And calling Rubio ball dominant is crazy. He is a phenomenal distributor. Certainly one with major flaws, but a really good passer who moves the ball as well as anyone.

Wiggins has athleticism but that's not enough any more. His willingness to defend isn't there. He puts his head down and goes. Thats Alex Burks territory. More athletic, but he is going to have to completely transform his game to become an above avg player.