JK is good, but better than Nash? It's a good aurgument, J Kidd is clutch and just absoslutley all-around. The reason he's not winning MVP's is because his team is not winning like the Suns.
some of you guys seem to forget that Jkidd had a pretty good time around him when he went to the finals. He had Jefferson who was young and had the legs to run and dunk with anyone. Kmart was at his best at that time, which is to say a dunker like Amare with possibly better defense. He had Kittle, who was a pretty darn good player back in the day. Another point, JKidd went to the finals representing the EAST. Put the suns in the east, do you guys still think the suns wouldn't have made/make the finals at least once in these past two years or this year?
And the one thing that people never seem to always credit the suns' system and discredit Nash's contribution is his scoring/shooting ability. If he shot like Jkidd, I don't think the suns can play the style they currently play. The suns primary move is the pick and roll and no one does it better than nash at this point because if can kill you with both the pass and the shot. If I was a defender against JKidd, I will always duck under the pick and let him shoot it. I know the percentage are to my advantage. I can't say the same with Nash.
some of you guys seem to forget that Jkidd had a pretty good time around him when he went to the finals. He had Jefferson who was young and had the legs to run and dunk with anyone. Kmart was at his best at that time, which is to say a dunker like Amare with possibly better defense. He had Kittle, who was a pretty darn good player back in the day. Another point, JKidd went to the finals representing the EAST. Put the suns in the east, do you guys still think the suns wouldn't have made/make the finals at least once in these past two years or this year?
And the one thing that people never seem to always credit the suns' system and discredit Nash's contribution is his scoring/shooting ability. If he shot like Jkidd, I don't think the suns can play the style they currently play. The suns primary move is the pick and roll and no one does it better than nash at this point because if can kill you with both the pass and the shot. If I was a defender against JKidd, I will always duck under the pick and let him shoot it. I know the percentage are to my advantage. I can't say the same with Nash.
2001-2002, RJ came off the bench for 9PPG. used mainly for break opportunities and defense. all Kenyon Martin could do is dunk back then. his jumpshot would develop later in his final season in NJ and he has no post game to speak of.
Kerry Kittles is a good marksman, but Keith van Horn and Todd McCullough? it's a wonder Kidd got that team to the Finals.
You make it sound like RJ wasn't a very good player back then. His 9PPG was mis-leading...coming from a NJ fan I should know you would try to downplay Kidd' teammates to make it look like he did something spectacular with his team but that wasn't the case.
He beat the Paul Peirce/Toine led Celtics to gain access to the finals one year... wow, talk about an accomplishment. That Boston team was horrible.
Second year they added Mutombo & Rodney Rogers.. while losing Todd & KVH. By this time Jefferson has come around.
Again they beat Boston, but in the semis. They went on to beat the Pistons... but they were the Pistons before they gained experience & Sheed. Tay was only a rookie I believe at the time. Nice, solid team... but nothing more.
The road Jason had walked to the finals was a much easier one than Steve, along with the rest of the Suns have to go through now.
Boston & Detroit compared to the powerhouses that we know as SAS & Dallas? Even Denver, and certainly this years Rockets, are greater competition than those Celtic teams or Detroit.
You can say Nash has better teammates, blah blah blah so he should make the finals... basically the fact that Nash has had to continually go at it against powerhouses like SAS & Dallas every year cancells out the easy road the Nets had.
I mean looking back at those Boston teams... what the hell? Do they even make the playoffs in the west this year?
All I'm saying is don't use Kidd' finals appearances as the end all be all. The savior statement. When all else fails all I have to say is Kidd made it to the finals twice.
You make it sound like RJ wasn't a very good player back then. His 9PPG was mis-leading...coming from a NJ fan I should know you would try to downplay Kidd' teammates to make it look like he did something spectacular with his team but that wasn't the case.
He beat the Paul Peirce/Toine led Celtics to gain access to the finals one year... wow, talk about an accomplishment. That Boston team was horrible.
Second year they added Mutombo & Rodney Rogers.. while losing Todd & KVH. By this time Jefferson has come around.
Again they beat Boston, but in the semis. They went on to beat the Pistons... but they were the Pistons before they gained experience & Sheed. Tay was only a rookie I believe at the time. Nice, solid team... but nothing more.
The road Jason had walked to the finals was a much easier one than Steve, along with the rest of the Suns have to go through now.
Boston & Detroit compared to the powerhouses that we know as SAS & Dallas? Even Denver, and certainly this years Rockets, are greater competition than those Celtic teams or Detroit.
You can say Nash has better teammates, blah blah blah so he should make the finals... basically the fact that Nash has had to continually go at it against powerhouses like SAS & Dallas every year cancells out the easy road the Nets had.
I mean looking back at those Boston teams... what the hell? Do they even make the playoffs in the west this year?
All I'm saying is don't use Kidd' finals appearances as the end all be all. The savior statement. When all else fails all I have to say is Kidd made it to the finals twice.
You know.
you read too much into my post. I was not espousing that Kidd should be MVP over Nash.
I was merely pointing out in response to someone else's post that the 2001-2002 team was not as loaded as they thought and Kidd turned a 26 game winner into a 52 game winner.
You make it sound like RJ wasn't a very good player back then. His 9PPG was mis-leading...coming from a NJ fan I should know you would try to downplay Kidd' teammates to make it look like he did something spectacular with his team but that wasn't the case.
He beat the Paul Peirce/Toine led Celtics to gain access to the finals one year... wow, talk about an accomplishment. That Boston team was horrible.
Second year they added Mutombo & Rodney Rogers.. while losing Todd & KVH. By this time Jefferson has come around.
Again they beat Boston, but in the semis. They went on to beat the Pistons... but they were the Pistons before they gained experience & Sheed. Tay was only a rookie I believe at the time. Nice, solid team... but nothing more.
The road Jason had walked to the finals was a much easier one than Steve, along with the rest of the Suns have to go through now.
Boston & Detroit compared to the powerhouses that we know as SAS & Dallas? Even Denver, and certainly this years Rockets, are greater competition than those Celtic teams or Detroit.
You can say Nash has better teammates, blah blah blah so he should make the finals... basically the fact that Nash has had to continually go at it against powerhouses like SAS & Dallas every year cancells out the easy road the Nets had.
I mean looking back at those Boston teams... what the hell? Do they even make the playoffs in the west this year?
All I'm saying is don't use Kidd' finals appearances as the end all be all. The savior statement. When all else fails all I have to say is Kidd made it to the finals twice.
You know.
Screw that. The Nets still werent the most talented team in the East. RJ didn't fully come around and really be able to get his offense until the final year Kmart was there and both Kenyon and Kidd had knee issues. And aside from those 3, they weren't much. Kittles was inconsistent at best. The pretty much had no outside shooting and no bench.
If Kidd were on these Suns, he'd have a ring right now. Why? Because the way they spread the floor would make it so easy for him to get in the lane and hit layups and he's become a pretty decent 3pt shooter. I think that offense would raise his fg% to 44-46% His passing and vision is slightly better than Nash's. PLUS...his rebounding would be enough to make them an actually good rebounding club. PLUS... he can make any team atleast a pretty good defensive team. Im not sure that he couldn't take KT/Amare (he can atleast block some shots)/Marion/Bell into a very good defensive club. They wouldn't have to rely on punk ass doubling schemes to make up for Nash as much.
Only thing that Nash does better than Kidd is shoot jumpers. Period.
Nash on the Nets would be the same club offensively (maybe a few points better, as they don't have the personnel to make Nash such an efficient scorer) and a bad defensive team. And terrible rebounding club. Maybe not playoff bound.
I agree. If Nash switched with Kidd, their playoff cabapilities would be deteriorated. Nash is, literally, an atrocious defender. And not as good as a rebounder, stealer, and he isn't as quick. Only thing Nash can do better than Kidd is pass (arguably) and shoot.
The whole Suns system circles around the spacing that Nash gives them. Put Jason Kidd on the Suns and the other team just sag off of him and it screws up the whole offense.
Jason Kidd has NO jumper. Look at his playoff numbers. 32% FG? Wow, against that defensive juggernaut Raptors. I'm sure TJ Ford and Jose Calderon are defensive stoppers right?
Maybe Kidd would be better for the Suns if they wanted to be a defensive minded team. Even then, Kidd is not nearly the defender he used to be. We're talking about the player who let Anthony Johnson drop 40 on him in the playoffs.
Don't feed me this bull **** about how much he would make them a good rebounding team. He plays on a team full of players that box out and don't go for rebounds. You really think a team with 20 rebounds coming from the C and PF position is going to let Jason Kidd grab 8 rebounds a game? The reason he gets that ridiculous number is because he aggressively goes after the boards when Jason Collins boxes everyone out.
In short, all one has to do is look at the stats and team success. Jason Kidd's team is barely .500 while Nash's is about to win a title. The Nets have been injured, but a Nash+RJ+VC trio would be good enough to beat the Raptors, will Kidd be able to do that? Just look at last nights game. When the Nets were up 4 with 4 minutes to go, they couldn't score and they ended up losing by 6. You think Steve Nash is letting that happen? Against the Toronto Raptors?
Re: How great is Jason Kidd? He's so great.....
