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Old 04-16-2007, 05:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

Well his career was derailed by injuries. If he had been healthy he would've been on that list. Great, geat player. Basically a smarter Lamar Odom. Don't know but Manning was special.

Kind of like Grant Hill I guess. He'd be a sure shot top 10 player.



Some players who actually should be mentioned:

Bailey, Chambers, Cummings, Chuck Person, Xavier, Michael Cooper.... Schrempf. LJ....if that counts.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

For some reason I've always considered Drexler and Rice SG's. Viewed them them same way as I did Richmond.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by loot
Well his career was derailed by injuries. If he had been healthy he would've been on that list. Great, geat player. Basically a smarter Lamar Odom. Don't know but Manning was special.

Kind of like Grant Hill I guess. He'd be a sure shot top 10 player.



Some players who actually should be mentioned:

Bailey, Chambers, Cummings, Chuck Person, Xavier, Michael Cooper.... Schrempf. LJ....if that counts.


Wow, we agree on something. I was so high on Manning during that stretch where he played with Harp on the Clippers. That was a great team specially with Mark Jackson at his brilliant best.

Cummings Chambers and Bailey had several down seasons. However, I believe Chambers to be one of the most underrated of all time. Plus his sick dunk over Mark Jackson is good enough to put him on this list.

Also I agree with Drexler being an SG since I'll always remember him being heavily matched up with Jordan everytime they played.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by loot
Some players who actually should be mentioned:

Bailey, Chambers, Cummings, Chuck Person, Xavier, Michael Cooper.... Schrempf. LJ....if that counts.

For some reason I've always considered Drexler and Rice SG's. Viewed them them same way as I did Richmond.

I watched Bailey alot and no way am I putting him in as a top small forward all-time, he was ok, but shouldn't be in the top 10. Detlef had a great career, but his numbers are around 13 ppg for his career, I considered Terry Cummings more of a PF that sometimes played SF. Chuck is down the list a ways, Xavier's not quite there, Michael Cooper is down the list a ways, great defender though, Tom Chambers was a PF that sometimes played SF... no LJ, Carmelo, Kirilenko etc. don't count yet.

I thought of Rice as a large shooting guard too, but he's considered a SF

Last edited by Chalkmaze : 04-16-2007 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:17 AM   #20
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by Chalkmaze
I watched Bailey alot and no way am I putting him in as a top small forward all-time, he was ok, but shouldn't be in the top 10. Detlef had a great career, but his numbers are around 13 ppg for his career, I considered Terry Cummings more of a PF that sometimes played SF. Chuck is down the list a ways, Xavier's not quite there, Michael Cooper is down the list a ways, great defender though, Tom Chambers was a PF that sometimes played SF... no LJ, Carmelo, Kirilenko etc. don't count yet.

I thought of Rice as a large shooting guard too, but he's considered a SF

I don't believe they should make the list either, but I'm just throwing some namesout there for the honor roll. Although I think Xavieer should be mentioned if you're mentioning Hill and Rice.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by Chalkmaze
I watched Bailey alot and no way am I putting him in as a top small forward all-time, he was ok, but shouldn't be in the top 10. Detlef had a great career, but his numbers are around 13 ppg for his career, I considered Terry Cummings more of a PF that sometimes played SF. Chuck is down the list a ways, Xavier's not quite there, Michael Cooper is down the list a ways, great defender though, Tom Chambers was a PF that sometimes played SF... no LJ, Carmelo, Kirilenko etc. don't count yet.

I thought of Rice as a large shooting guard too, but he's considered a SF


You cannot discount Detlef just for stats alone. Did you actually watch this guy play? I can't imagine a team being unsuccessful with this guy on the court. He could beat you in so many ways. He even had a commercial about it.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:05 AM   #22
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

Plus one of the greatest sixth men in the game. Good defender. He realized he was a very good 6th men fairly early in his career. If he had started throughout his career his name would be mentioned more often imo.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

Scottie Pippen was a great player, one of the best, but I think the fact that he wasn't the main guy like the other small forwards were is what lessons his career somewhat. Guys like Alex English were THE guy for their team, they had to do a lot more, were counted on more heavily, had to hit the clutch shots all the time, be the leaders etc. Scottie was the number two guy in Chicago while Jordan was there, he wasn't counted on to do as much as a guy like Dominique, the fact that he's still in the top 10 says a lot about the guy though. I watched Pippen plenty and am a big fan, err.. well it's a love/hate thing since he beat my Jazz team, but don't think I didn't notice his great defense and playmaking ability. I was one of those who was saying Pippen would do really well even though Jordan was retired, and he did.

Julius is hard to judge as I'm only counting the 80's, which is when I got to see him play. Julius was a favorite, but as awesome as I thought he was, he didn't seem like an Adrian Dantley type that had to be counted on to carry the team in every way, shape, or form for the entire game.

Bernard was an prolific scoring machine but could probably be moved down the list due to his torn acl hurting his career. Personally he wasn't a favorite of mine but the guy is 22nd all time in scoring even after a MAJOR injury. Guy was pretty amazing. I didn't watch him play a whole lot, I've seen some career retrospectives and highlights on the guy though. Anyone watch him a lot and can give me an opinion? For what it's worth there were some rape type allegations and other things against him during his short stay in Utah, which is why the Jazz got rid of him.

Dantley improved Detroit by 6 wins over their previous season and they went from losing in the first round to winning their way to the conference finals, his efficiency is unheard of for a small forward. Utah had zero credibility as a team before Dantley got there, he took a bunch of nobodies (almost the very worst in the league) to Midwest Division leaders and a second round playoff team. In his 7 years at Utah he averaged 29.6 PPG and around 57% FG (at SF!!). (the 83-84 jazz scored an amazing 115 ppg btw). Dantley is considered the greatest 3-point shooter from 3 feet away from the basket, in that he would purposely wait for the defender to foul him while he made tough inside shots and then steadfastly complete the free throw. He's 18th in all-time points scored leaders. http://home.swbell.net/hartley4/points.htm

From 15 feet on in, he was the best basketball player I’ve ever seen,” said Kiki Vandeweghe who often guarded Dantley. “You just couldn’t stop him. There was nothing you could do. One-on-one, absolutely not."

In measuring Dantley’s impact, you merely can’t look at his numbers without factoring in the era in which he played. The small forward position ruled the ’80s. It was the golden era for the 3 spot: Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Alex English, Bernard King, James Worthy, Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Marques Johnson and let’s not forget Jamaal Wilkes.

“It seemed like everyone who was great was at that position,” said Vandeweghe. “Every night, you played against a guy who could drop 30 on you, easily. It was just an amazing time to play basketball and to be a small forward.” - Kiki Vandeweghe

Dantley was resented by Isiah Thomas because Dantley became the leading scorer for the Pistons as soon as he arrived. Thomas wasn't used to sharing the scoring limelight and took it out on Dantley while they were making their championship run. Thomas, who was close with the owner of the Pistons, was instrumental in the Pistons trading Dantley for Mark Aguirre of the Dallas Mavericks, a long-time friend of Thomas' who insured that Thomas would return to being the team's leading scorer. (I've never like Isiah as a person.)

Kblaze I can only go off of what I remember while watching Dantley as a kid, Utah was laughed at and ignored back then so maybe you were part of that crowd, I remember no one giving them any respect at all but Dantley changed that. I don't see Adrian as being like Carmelo, he was too efficient, non-flashy, totally different style wise, but I see that you are saying he was just a scorer like Anthony, but he had to be, and his scoring brought Utah important wins that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, he was also a great passer, and technique wise Sloan said he was the most sound defender he ever saw. His efficiency is the main thing that's so impressive, he wasn't just jacking up the ball and being a ball-hog with 42% shooting. Can you image how good Utah would have been if they wouldn't have traded Dantley and Rickey Green wouldn't have minded being a backup point guard? Stockton, Griffith, Dantley, Malone, Eaton. Would have been fun. So, I may still bump him yet, but I just think people have ignored him (I can't find any videos of the guy on the net, let alone that many pictures), I think he's much better than anyone gives him credit, people need to take notice, the guy has been largely unnoticed because he wasn't flashy and played in Utah, I'm unconvinced at this point that anyone besides Bird was clearly better.

Last edited by Chalkmaze : 04-16-2007 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by lovethetriangle
You cannot discount Detlef just for stats alone. Did you actually watch this guy play? I can't imagine a team being unsuccessful with this guy on the court. He could beat you in so many ways. He even had a commercial about it.

I certainly did watch Schrempf, he was awesome. In fact, I was sitting by one of the Jazz superfans one night and the guy made some funny comment about Detlef, so Detlef faced us, and yelled to him... Hey Suds, looks like you've been enjoying the all-you-can eat buffets again LOL (Suds is a big guy)... I later read in the paper that they were friends and have gone out to lunch and stuff.

I liked Detelf, watched him quite a bit over the years too, and am not just dismissing him because of his stats alone. It's just a case where he wasn't THE guy on the team, sometimes he was the third option. Nothing against the guy, but like Pippen, he wasn't the first option that had to be the main workhorse night in a night out. He was a very solid player though.

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Old 04-16-2007, 10:29 AM   #25
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Saying he never won anything is like saying you're the best employee at you're company and one the best in you're field of work, but you're company just isn't as big and powerful a major company somewhere else, Therefore you never get the recognition...It's not his fault they didn't win. Sh*t, the Piston's traded him away after the '88 Finals, and they won the next year...It was just bad luck...nothing more nothing less..


no its not saying that at all

winning is everything in the NBA and you have him over TEN, players whoa re better than him.

Itis real quaint that a 6'5" guy could score in the post, but AD's contributions weren't as great as anyone else in the top ten and a few of your honorable mentions.

His team traded him away to toughen up and win the title by the way

Why the hard-on for Dantley is the better question?
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Old 04-16-2007, 10:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
no its not saying that at all

winning is everything in the NBA and you have him over TEN, players whoa re better than him.

Itis real quaint that a 6'5" guy could score in the post, but AD's contributions weren't as great as anyone else in the top ten and a few of your honorable mentions.

His team traded him away to toughen up and win the title by the way

Why the hard-on for Dantley is the better question?


I think you should join in the Oscar thread Izzo. Its getting interesting and your reasoning in this post somewhat equates to what we are talking about with regard to big O.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

Chris Mullin has no place being on this list.

Players I'd take over him:
-Danny Manning
-Detlef Schrempf
-Shawn Marion
-Glen Rice
-Paul Pierce
-Grant Hill
-Tom Chambers

Chris Mullin is the equivalent of Glenn Robinson. The most overrated underrated player ever. If that makes any sense.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Originally Posted by loot
For some reason I've always considered Drexler and Rice SG's. Viewed them them same way as I did Richmond.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:10 AM   #29
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

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Rice can't guard shooting guards. And he was 6'8", he's a small forward to me.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: Top 10 Small Forwards since 1980 (listed in order)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seņor Cedric
Chris Mullin has no place being on this list.

Players I'd take over him:
-Danny Manning
-Detlef Schrempf
-Shawn Marion
-Glen Rice
-Paul Pierce
-Grant Hill
-Tom Chambers

Chris Mullin is the equivalent of Glenn Robinson. The most overrated underrated player ever. If that makes any sense.

LMAO @ Schrempf and Rice over Mullin. Even Marion and Manning have little, if any, case (Marion has somewhat of a statistical case, but Mullin had more impact and didn't have a tendency of disappearing). Mullin averaged 25.8/5.6/4.1/52.3% FG for a 5-year prime period. And his assists would have been higher had he not played with a dominant PG (Mullin was a fantastic passer).
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