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Old 04-04-2007, 04:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

RM, i'm with you. the one change i would make is to keep a lottery system in place, but balance the odds in the order you determined instead of the order that rewards tankish behavior. or you could give everyone in the lottery (non-playoff teams) the same amount of ping pong balls. that way there's no incentive to tank and no incentive to fall out of the 8th seed because either way you've just got a 1/14 chance to get the top spot. you might as well get the playoff experience (and money) unless the draft is super-loaded.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne
And this plan gives absolutely no incentive for the 8th seed to lose 4 games in the regular season to get the 9th spot for the best shot at the #1 pick instead of losing 4 in the first round.

Come on.
They'd have to match their losing up with the teams' beneath them's winning, and that'd be a hard trick to pull off, not to mention if you have a team around .500, especially if they're above .500, how are they going to hide the fact that they're in tank mode? It's one thing for a bad team to continue to lose, and another for a respectable team to suddenly turn into the worst team in the NBA. And the, throw in all of th emoney they lose by not having the postseason? Most teams wouldn't make that decision, because teams with respectable records are normally teams that were trying to win all season and had expectations of some level of glory for the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
It doesn't leave reward for tanking.

It leaves reward for incredibly precise, nearly-impossible tanking.

1, 15, 2, 14, 3, 13, 4, 12, 5, 11, 6, 10, 7, 9, 8.

Teams can't maneuver around that kind of system RIMWUG.
Teams close to the bottom would still have strong incentive to tank, but I won't disagree that it may be a better system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuxia
If you notice, every year after the first few picks, there is huge drop off in talent and the rest of the picks are totally dependent of team needs. If you don't give the worst teams the lotery players, they seriously would be bad forever.
That's not true. The talent level drops off over the course of the draft but some years it's gradual while others there will be tthe superstar few and then roleplayers. And different teams draft different ways, some focused greatly on positions and how a pick fits their team while others look more at talent. There's no set method.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
RM, i'm with you. the one change i would make is to keep a lottery system in place, but balance the odds in the order you determined instead of the order that rewards tankish behavior. or you could give everyone in the lottery (non-playoff teams) the same amount of ping pong balls. that way there's no incentive to tank and no incentive to fall out of the 8th seed because either way you've just got a 1/14 chance to get the top spot. you might as well get the playoff experience (and money) unless the draft is super-loaded.
That's not a bad idea either. Bad teams would still rest players once they were mathematically eliminated but at least they wouldn't have any motivation to lose.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

There needs to be a system that offers good players to the worst teams if you value parity in the league. This post reads like something a baseball fan would come up with, since baseball fans are used to having a small handful of great teams year after year that the smaller markets can barely compete with.

No matter what, you have to choose between league parity and anti-tanking. Any move that reduces tanking is a move that reduces parity and vice versa.

If you give the #1 pick straight up to the worst team, you've helped the team that needs it most, but you've encouraged serious tanking to get there.

If you give equal odds to every lottery team, you've eliminated tanking, but you aren't helping the worst team get better. Teams that are continually bad in a small market, with no apparent hope for the future will simply go out of business or move cities.

Perhaps a comprimise would be to give all lottery teams equal odds for the #1 pick, but award the rest of the picks by record. That way teams would only blatantly tank in years where there are two amazing draft picks (like this one), which doesn't happen all that often.

In the end, the tanking doesn't really bother me. Why does it bother others? I'm still having fun watching basketball games.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Better idea: All teams that miss the playoffs get an equal opportunity to get the #1 pick. Those teams are drawn randomly to decide picks 1-14 and then 15-30 belong to playoff teams and are done strictly by team record.

If you weren't going to make the playoffs, there would be no point to tanking because your chances aren't going to improve.

One rule would be that any team who gets a top 5 pick cannot get a top 5 pick in the next lottery.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

1: Are you accusing moi of being a baseball fan? I'm not. I'm a Red Sox fan. There's a difference.

2: I don't enjoy watching the Cs pick players to rest, one-by-one. The only reason I'm going to turn on the Cs game tonight is the hope that Gerald Green gets some highlight-reel dunks and finally breaks 30.
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchCityReturns
Better idea: All teams that miss the playoffs get an equal opportunity to get the #1 pick. Those teams are drawn randomly to decide picks 1-14 and then 15-30 belong to playoff teams and are done strictly by team record.

Draft was already doing that...thats how Orlando got Shaq and Penny back to back years. Lottery changed to give those Orlando teams a lesser chance at top talent which is smart.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Draft was already doing that...thats how Orlando got Shaq and Penny back to back years. Lottery changed to give those Orlando teams a lesser chance at top talent which is smart.

That's why I added the caveat of not allowing a team to get back to back Top 5 picks. I think it would work as well as anything, in terms of tanking that is.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:03 PM   #24
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchCityReturns
Better idea: All teams that miss the playoffs get an equal opportunity to get the #1 pick. Those teams are drawn randomly to decide picks 1-14 and then 15-30 belong to playoff teams and are done strictly by team record.

If you weren't going to make the playoffs, there would be no point to tanking because your chances aren't going to improve.

One rule would be that any team who gets a top 5 pick cannot get a top 5 pick in the next lottery.
i like this idea. it still keeps teams from tanking or abandoning a run at the playoffs but it also means no more back to back draft dominations.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:09 PM   #25
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

I like the "no consecutive top 5 picks" rule as well. Teams like ATL and the Clips a few years back wouldn't get to just suck and pick high every year.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:11 PM   #26
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
I like the "no consecutive top 5 picks" rule as well. Teams like ATL and the Clips a few years back wouldn't get to just suck and pick high every year.
not that it helped them.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchCityReturns
That's why I added the caveat of not allowing a team to get back to back Top 5 picks. I think it would work as well as anything, in terms of tanking that is.

I dont like it because this could happen. 2yrs ago Clevland and Minny missed the playoffs but had records of 42-40 and 44-38. Lets say Clevland wins the draft that season. Thus they cant win it next year if they were to be in the lottery. Whats to say if Clevland becomes a playoff contender after winning the lottery that they knock out another team that made the playoffs (when Clevland didnt)? Then that team ends up like a Clevland or Minny where they have a record over .500, went down to the race for an 8 seed but lost by a game. Lottery rolls around and they win the lottery? Or a team like Minny wins the lottery? Basically every year having 1-2 teams over .500 missing the playoffs and getting tops picks only to see the following year that cycle repeat itself. And heck they dont have to even win the lottery but if those teams are getting top 3 picks when they field a team over .500 then it becomes unfair.

How are the bad teams ever gonna improve? History of the draft the 6-7yrs have shown that the teams with the worst records dont always win the lottery. Clev/Orl did it but for the most part? Teams in the 4-7 range have. So my point is with the system in place as is the bad teams arent getting great deals to begin with (getting the top picks) so your idea i dont see them getting better deals either.

You gotta create a system where the bad teams get the top/primere talent. Why? Parity...if thats not what you want in the NBA? Then your idea isnt bad. But if you want a league with parity, a league where you can eliminate as many laughing stocks as you can...a league prepared for future expansions which will happen. Then the system needs to be geared towards the bad teams getting the best talent available.

The NFL is a league that has parity and they operate under the worst team gets the top pick. And the notion of tanking is less spoken of like it is in the NBA. Maybe thats the way to go....to go by records. If people wanna claim so and so are tanking then so be it.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:24 PM   #28
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Obviously the worst teams need to improve, and that's why Van Gundy's original suggestion was dumb. Of course if we're strictly worried about parody, then the current system isn't broken enough to bother fixing. If you a main concern was to prevent tanking, then I don't think the system I suggested would be a bad alternative.

What it comes down to is that there may not be a way to prevent tanking while also insuring that bad teams get dibs on top talent. It's pretty much their nature to have an inverse relationship.

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Old 04-04-2007, 05:27 PM   #29
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Penalizing the bad teams of the NBA doesnt help them play better. Memphis isnt gonna win 10-12 more games knowing that the new draft idea is being implemented. Why? Because they just arent good. Its like trying to drill, motivate and pressure a retarded kid to write a 10pg paper. Its not gonna happen. They arent capable of being a scholar. Memphis isnt capable of winning more games than they have. Thats my problem with giving borderline playoff teams an equal advantage of the top pick.

If for fun Denver misses the playoffs and under that idea they win the lottery and a Greg Oden comes out. I mean wtf, how is that fair they land a Greg Oden when they have a decent team as is.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Real Man's (not "RMWG," dammit) Insane Plan to End Tanking Forever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by saKf
RAMWOG, your idea leaves the worst teams the worst. Motivation can only carry them so far.

What I was going to say... Lets say such a plan started this off season... how would the Celtics fair?
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