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Old 03-18-2007, 12:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

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With all that said how come Wilt was the only player who put up those amazing stats? Who else was putting up those monster numbers?

Thank you. I've heard more than once how "Wilt's 50 ppg translate to about 30 ppg today", yet, the next best scorers were in the 30-32 ppg range. So, by today's standards, that would be 18-20 ppg...If that's true, then Wilt's era was actually the most team-oriented one, which means that if the stars back then played like the stars of today, we'd have multiple players averaging 40-50 ppg...Not the case, though, which means that Wilt's "50 then" were more than just "30 now".

Last edited by Psileas : 03-18-2007 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

Ok...so he was the BEST Nerf BBall player Had his own special Orange spongy ball, and shtt!!

I'm not discrediting a thing he did. Not one!! Probably the greatest talent ever, and also a recipient of playing in the infancy of the game, where rules had to be changed, due to how simple he made things look.

But you can't deny....When you put the most dominant player ever, in an environment with the most user friendly rules...it kinda illustrates how he came up with those stats.

Wilt= A.I./Shaq/David Robinson/Ben Wallace clone.

A.I.'s endurance/conditioning
Shaq's strength and size
DRob's fluidy and athleticsm (for a big man)
Ben Wallace's tenacity
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Scoring topic, 60+)

Eh, nothing Wilt did counts in my book. He didn't play against real athletes.

Yes, that's the most idiotic thing you've ever heard, but I don't give a fck, that's my opinion. Any records of bullsht being done back in the 60's and sht, take it out the record books.
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Scoring topic, 60+)

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Originally Posted by Solid Snake
Eh, nothing Wilt did counts in my book. He didn't play against real athletes.

Yes, that's the most idiotic thing you've ever heard, but I don't give a fck, that's my opinion. Any records of bullsht being done back in the 60's and sht, take it out the record books.

Idiot alert
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

^

While I don't agree...I feel what you're saying.

I feel similarly to Baseball and anything that occured...Pre-Jackie Robinson.
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Old 03-18-2007, 01:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

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Originally Posted by jn2rons
^

While I don't agree...I feel what you're saying.

I feel similarly to Baseball and anything that occured...Pre-Jackie Robinson.

And do you accept the game of baseball and its records/stats accumilated over the years now?
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

Honestly I don't give a rats ass about baseball, but when people start talking about records (all of the biggies)....I play deaf. Seeing as how soooooo many of those stats were accumulated pre-blacks & hispanic.

IMO, you can't praise Babe for his 714, without also praising Josh Gibson's 800+ HR's.

Ya know?

Wilt's deserving of his praise, even if the rules were designed for someone of his aptitude...to dominate. I question if he was white, would those rules ever have been changed???
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

Well they changed the rules when George Mikan played. And he was just as dominant as Wilt was of his era. Do you really think Mikan could score 61 in today's league? Same thing goes for Wilt. They just were blessed to be beyond their time physically.
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

I am always amused by the people who discredit wilt but prop up 70s/80s players. Wilt was the second or third most productive player in the NBA(19 rebounds, 5 assists, and 73% shooting on a 60 win finals team) 5 years before Larry Bird was drafted. Just 4 years before Bernard King was an all star. And Wilt was 36-37 at the time. Leading a finals team with numbers second only to Kareem and maybe Tiny(Who played with Bird on the Celtics for 5 years). **** Rick Barry got knocked out of the playoffs by both Bird and Wilt. Elvin Hayes was an all star with Wilt, Magic, and Bird. If Doctor J went to the Bucks when they drafted him hed have played in leagues with both Wilt and Barkley. Kareem got knocked out of the playoffs by both Wilt and Hakeem.

Nobody acts like Magic and Bird couldnt play today but a guy who was past his prime but still arguably the second best in the league 5-6 years before them is just totally discredited. Common sense says that if 36 yearold wilt can be great a few years before Bird(facing many of the same players) in his prime he could easily....easily play in the 80s. If the 80s are modern enough to not get your best players considered garbage I dont see why Wilt gets hated on.

That **** wasnt as long ago as it sounds. Acting like wilts play doesnt count but Bird/Magics does is about like saying Karl Malone in his prime couldnt play today because he has not been a superstar for a whole 5 years. If today is fine 5 years ago should be. The ABA merger helped the league but no so much that a guy with numbers like he had on a 60 win finals team couldnt keep being great. Wilt in his prime could play in any era. And as close as he was to an era nobody discredits I dont even see why anyone disputes it.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I am always amused by the people who discredit wilt but prop up 70s/80s players. Wilt was the second or third most productive player in the NBA(19 rebounds, 5 assists, and 73% shooting on a 60 win finals team) 5 years before Larry Bird was drafted. Just 4 years before Bernard King was an all star. And Wilt was 36-37 at the time. Leading a finals team with numbers second only to Kareem and maybe Tiny(Who played with Bird on the Celtics for 5 years). **** Rick Barry got knocked out of the playoffs by both Bird and Wilt. Elvin Hayes was an all star with Wilt, Magic, and Bird. If Doctor J went to the Bucks when they drafted him hed have played in leagues with both Wilt and Barkley. Kareem got knocked out of the playoffs by both Wilt and Hakeem.

Nobody acts like Magic and Bird couldnt play today but a guy who was past his prime but still arguably the second best in the league 5-6 years before them is just totally discredited. Common sense says that if 36 yearold wilt can be great a few years before Bird(facing many of the same players) in his prime he could easily....easily play in the 80s. If the 80s are modern enough to not get your best players considered garbage I dont see why Wilt gets hated on.

That **** wasnt as long ago as it sounds. Acting like wilts play doesnt count but Bird/Magics does is about like saying Karl Malone in his prime couldnt play today because he has not been a superstar for a whole 5 years. If today is fine 5 years ago should be. The ABA merger helped the league but no so much that a guy with numbers like he had on a 60 win finals team couldnt keep being great. Wilt in his prime could play in any era. And as close as he was to an era nobody discredits I dont even see why anyone disputes it.

Excellent point, but I've heard people take it to the extreme, saying that Wilt could put up 40+ points a game easily in today's league because of our soft defenses... defenses back in the 70s were so much better, etc... etc... We shouldn't outright dismiss Wilt's accomplishments, but we should provide context.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

I'm not dismissing what Mikan, Chamberlain and those pioneers did for the game. But c'mon, you'd have to be smoking some serious rock to think that they would be able to put up the numbers they did then in modern leagues. I mean Elgin Baylor played before Wilt, and his high point game is more impressive to me, because he was still closer in stature and athleticism to his competition. THAT's impressive. Not being 7'2, and having slow, un-athletic 6'4 Centers guarding you...
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

And he did that with a pretty good field goal percentage I might add, his field goal percentage for the night was 59%, that is pretty good when you take in the factor he took 39 shots also. Very impressive performance all around IMO.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

I posted this in the Kobe vs. AI thread,
Quote:
this is great fun, in this thread we have people arguing kobe would not dominate like he does against teams of the past, the teams were much better than todays... in another thread we have people arguing that wilt wouldn't dominate like he did against teams of the current NBA, because teams today are more athletic...lol
that should be a thread in it's self, which temas were athletic/dominate/better? teams of today or teams of yesteryear
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

This 6'4'' center myth is another I dont get. 2-3 times a year someone explains it. We averaged it out and in 67-69(I dont remember exactly which year we used) the average NBA center was the same height as the average east center when we did it(think it was 2003). Players measured for official height without shoes then....with shoes now. Ever look at combine measurements for with and without shoes? Its quite a difference.

Bill Russell in shoes was 6'10'' and a half and Wilt gave him 60. Got 55 boards vs him. Nate thurmond was 7'1''. Swede Halbrook was 7'3''. Walter Dukes was a 7 footer before Wilt and didnt do ****. Lanier 7 feet tall. Hayes 6'11''. Boerwinkle was 7'1''. Pettit 6'10''. Kareem 7'2 or 3. Bellamy 6'11'' and a half. The small bigmen were 6'7'' Unseld who was something of a Barkley type of his day, Jerry Lucas who was 6'8'', and Dave Debusschere. Oh and Gus Johnson who was something like Marion. But 3 of them were forwards anyway. Cowens 6'10''. Reed 6'10''.

There were no midgets. The small centers in Wilts prime(late 20s early 30s) were the same size as the small centers now and Wilt was just as good. Centers arent just giants today. Shaq has not played a starting center listed over 7 feet tall in 11 games. In wilt last title run he played and knocked out 7'2'' or 3 Kareem, 7+ Boerwinkle, and then Lucas on a team with 6 hall of famers. On Shaqs last title run he played Tyson Chandler/Sweetney, Jason Collins, Ben Wallace, and Eric Dampier. The best player on that list is a 6'7'' center in a discussion about how small Wilts comp was. Shaq has probably not played a center nearly as good as Kareem in his prime since the 1995 finals. Wilt in his prime had as much comp as Shaq did(or more) at the 5 in his last 10 years(Hakeem, Ewing, and Drob fell off after 97 or so).
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Okay, this is just unreal... (Kobe scoring topic)

Wow, KBlaze, when you put it like that it certainly looks like we're talking about the most dominant player ever and a guy who was just above everyone else who ever played the game...
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