Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2007, 03:36 PM   #16
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I think he was talking more about how the guy who made it wouldnt get paid like they wanted for it. But they did. They got like a billion dollars. Think they give a damn at this point what Google has to deal with?

Im sure on some level they care since it is their creation but ****....a billion dollars can wipe away a lot of tears.
No, he was referring to the purchaser. Digging up the quote here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I seriously doubt that youtube will end up being a poor investment on Google's part, and while that was the main gist of Cuban's statements, his actual statements were a little stronger. Youtube has proven to be successful so far and has begun partnering with media organizations... something Cuban failed to note could or would happen... not sure how he missed that. That's actually one of the things I said would happen...

Didn't Cuban say that whatever company bought youtube would be sued into oblivion or something like that?
If they lose this billion-dollar lawsuit (and there's a strong chance of that) that means they'll have sunk 2.65 billion into Youtube not counting all the employees they pay to maintain the site, the contracts they have with companies like the NBA, and then all of the other companies that would follow Viacom's lead and also sue. It'd be extremely difficult to make money under those conditions.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 04:06 PM   #17
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,376
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
If they lose this billion-dollar lawsuit (and there's a strong chance of that) that means they'll have sunk 2.65 billion into Youtube not counting all the employees they pay to maintain the site, the contracts they have with companies like the NBA, and then all of the other companies that would follow Viacom's lead and also sue. It'd be extremely difficult to make money under those conditions.

The contracts that youtube has with organizations like the NBA and the one they're developing with BBC remain a source of revenue. They aren't losing money on those deals. The content draws viewers to the site, and viewers draw advertisers. A fraction of the money youtube makes from ads goes to the media organizations as payment for their content and as a cut of the ad revenue.

Also, we're still in the phase where we're hoping someone else jumps in on this and sues youtube in addition to Viacom, but from all appearances, most organizations want to work with youtube to make video content available. There hasn't been a great deal of resistence. In fact, the reason Viacom is now suing is that their deal with youtube fell through a few months ago. They wouldn't be suing otherwise.

I'm still trying to figure out why Mark Cuban never noted that youtube would seek to partner with other media organizations to make their content available.

And why didn't those who said that Mark Cuban was right when Stern announced that the NBA would seek to have NBA videos removed from youtube and other online sites not come back and mention that Mark Cuban had skipped this important fact when Stern announced that the NBA would partner with youtube?

Last edited by MaxFly : 03-13-2007 at 04:11 PM.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 04:22 PM   #18
reppy
Apparently likes anime
 
reppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,097
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

I happen to think that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, that's like suing Geocities because someone uploaded some warez. If you upload an MP3 to your ISP's web space, can I sue your ISP?
reppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 04:28 PM   #19
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
The contracts that youtube has with organizations like the NBA and the one they're developing with BBC remain a source of revenue. They aren't losing money on those deals. The content draws viewers to the site, and viewers draw advertisers. A fraction of the money youtube makes from ads goes to the media organizations as payment for their content and as a cut of the ad revenue.
I don't know what Youtube agreed to pay, if anything, so I'll leave that alone, but I suspect that they had to give the NBA some kind of guarantee of profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Also, we're still in the phase where we're hoping someone else jumps in on this and sues youtube in addition to Viacom, but from all appearances, most organizations want to work with youtube to make video content available. There hasn't been a great deal of resistence. In fact, the reason Viacom is now suing is that their deal with youtube fell through a few months ago. They wouldn't be suing otherwise.
You're a phase behind. Viacom is suing for a billion dollars. That lawsuit alone, if lost, will mean that Youtube is a bust for Google. If/when anyone else joins in it becomes a nightmare. Viacom's previous attempt to negotiate a deal with Google won't matter in a court of law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I'm still trying to figure out why Mark Cuban never noted that youtube would seek to partner with other media organizations to make their content available.
He either didn't think of it or didn't care to mention it. Doesn't matter either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
And why didn't those who said that Mark Cuban was right when Stern announced that the NBA would seek to have NBA videos removed from youtube and other online sites not come back and mention that Mark Cuban had skipped this important fact when Stern announced that the NBA would partner with youtube?
What, exactly, are you complaining about here? I mentioned the NBA deal in the original post, for whatever it matters. Beyond that, so what?

Last edited by Real Men Wear Green : 03-13-2007 at 04:32 PM.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 04:32 PM   #20
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy
I happen to think that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, that's like suing Geocities because someone uploaded some warez. If you upload an MP3 to your ISP's web space, can I sue your ISP?
Is my ISP going to make money off of the mp3 I uploaded?
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 04:48 PM   #21
RidonKs
NBA Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Free Hat!
Posts: 16,630
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

This may seem like a stupid question, but how do companies like Youtube make money? Is it solely through advertising, or are there other ways?
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 05:01 PM   #22
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
This may seem like a stupid question, but how do companies like Youtube make money? Is it solely through advertising, or are there other ways?
Mainly advertising, and some also have a pay per view service, although I don't know if Youtube does that yet.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 05:05 PM   #23
RidonKs
NBA Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Free Hat!
Posts: 16,630
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

I see.
RidonKs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 05:36 PM   #24
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,376
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
I don't know what Youtube agreed to pay, if anything, so I'll leave that alone, but I suspect that they had to give the NBA some kind of guarantee of profit.

Yes, the NBA makes money by lending their product. The money that the NBA makes is a cut of the profit that youtube makes.

Quote:
You're a phase behind. Viacom is suing for a billion dollars. That lawsuit alone, if lost, will mean that Youtube is a bust for Google. If/when anyone else joins in it becomes a nightmare. Viacom's previous attempt to negotiate a deal with Google won't matter in a court of law.

If, after Viacom sues, youtube and google go on to rule web video for the next 10 years, and make that billion back, plus more, would that be a bust for Google, because that's likely what will happen even if Viacom wins their suit. By the time this is resolved, it's likely that youtube will have partnered with several media organizations and will be much bigger than it is now. I have a feeling that they're not too worried about ending up in oblivion due to this as Cuban intimated.

Quote:
He either didn't think of it or didn't care to mention it. Doesn't matter either way.

Actually, it's very important. We're saying that Cuban is right for predicting that youtube would be sued into obvivion and that it was a bad investment as a result, however, he completely neglected to mention one of the main things that would make youtube a good investment? Not only that, but he's spoken about google and youtube several times after the aquisition and seems to keep forgetting that youtube is continuing to grow and sign deals with other media organizations... If I didn't just think Cuban was just being myopic, I'd almost say that he is being a little irrational and may very well have something against YouTube... Maybe it has to do with the fact that his former company, now under Yahoo, didn't become as relevant as he had hoped...

Quote:
What, exactly, are you complaining about here? I mentioned the NBA deal in the original post, for whatever it matters. Beyond that, so what?

I'm not complaining, just taking note of the facts...
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 05:52 PM   #25
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
If, after Viacom sues, youtube and google go on to rule web video for the next 10 years, and make that billion back, plus more, would that be a bust for Google, because that's likely what will happen even if Viacom wins their suit. By the time this is resolved, it's likely that youtube will have partnered with several media organizations and will be much bigger than it is now. I have a feeling that they're not too worried about ending up in oblivion due to this as Cuban intimated.
There isn't a business in existence that wouldn't be worried about a billion-dollar lawsuit. And they're going to need a lot of lucratice partnerships to make up that kind of money. The "rule" of web video isn't going to be worth jack if every company they can't broker a deal with them is just suing them for whatever they couldn't get on the negotiating table. Not to mention that the deals they negotiate would get worse if/when Viacom proves that you can legally take whatever Youtube is unwilling to give.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Actually, it's very important. We're saying that Cuban is right for predicting that youtube would be sued into obvivion and that it was a bad investment as a result, however, he completely neglected to mention one of the main things that would make youtube a good investment? Not only that, but he's spoken about google and youtube several times after the aquisition and seems to keep forgetting that youtube is continuing to grow and sign deals with other media organizations... If I didn't just think Cuban was just being myopic, I'd almost say that he is being a little irrational and may very well have something against YouTube... Maybe it has to do with the fact that his former company, now under Yahoo, didn't become as relevant as he had hoped...
It doesn't matter until Youtube is actually shown to be a good investment. How much money has Youtube made after the initial 1.65 billion dollar plunge? Youtube is a long way from profiting Google, if it ever will. And I doubt that Cuban is overly concerned with the fate of one of his former companies. He's a businessman, and all of his former business ventures were, for him, stepping stones.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 08:09 PM   #26
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,376
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
There isn't a business in existence that wouldn't be worried about a billion-dollar lawsuit. And they're going to need a lot of lucratice partnerships to make up that kind of money. The "rule" of web video isn't going to be worth jack if every company they can't broker a deal with them is just suing them for whatever they couldn't get on the negotiating table. Not to mention that the deals they negotiate would get worse if/when Viacom proves that you can legally take whatever Youtube is unwilling to give.

First of all, it's extremely unlikely that Viacom will get anything close to what they're suing for. Because youtube has been pretty vigilant in removing copyright material and complying with requests from most corporations to do so, the courts are likely to be relatively lenient. Secondly, this fight with Viacom, if it even goes to court, will last some time. Youtube is not going to scale back in the interim. They'll continue to grow and partner with as many media corporations as possible. That will only put more pressure on Viacom and others who are resistant to come to some sort of compromise. We're looking at this as if Viacom will win their suit of a billion, however it's more likely that Viacom will drop the suit and compromise or flat out lose the suit.

Also, there's the issue of Viacom overreaching and demanding that youtube remove material that doesn't belong to Viacom (but rather private citizens) as they have already done. Should be a fun court battle if it comes to that... Unfortunately for Cuban, youtube will continue to be successful.

Quote:
It doesn't matter until Youtube is actually shown to be a good investment. How much money has Youtube made after the initial 1.65 billion dollar plunge? Youtube is a long way from profiting Google, if it ever will.

Youtube was bought, what, 5 months ago... Are we really looking for a profit? It seems that right now, Google is modifying and in fact creating a business model structure for youtube... something that Cuban didn't forsee happening for whatever reason. I'm sure they'll make back their 1 billion relatively quickly once they're settled. Yahoo took quite some time to make back their money when they bought broadcast.com from Cuban. It's the way things work... looking to the future and all...

Quote:
And I doubt that Cuban is overly concerned with the fate of one of his former companies. He's a businessman, and all of his former business ventures were, for him, stepping stones.

He seems overly concerned... perhaps a bit jealous even. If you know what broadcast.com was and is now, it seems too much of a coincidence that's he's been going after youtube.

He's suggested that companies spam youtube with advertising videos as retribution... Why does he seem so invested in this fight against youtube?

Last edited by MaxFly : 03-13-2007 at 08:11 PM.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 08:56 PM   #27
Real Men Wear Green
Don't panic.
 
Real Men Wear Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton, MA
Posts: 19,709
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
First of all, it's extremely unlikely that Viacom will get anything close to what they're suing for. Because youtube has been pretty vigilant in removing copyright material and complying with requests from most corporations to do so, the courts are likely to be relatively lenient. Secondly, this fight with Viacom, if it even goes to court, will last some time. Youtube is not going to scale back in the interim. They'll continue to grow and partner with as many media corporations as possible. That will only put more pressure on Viacom and others who are resistant to come to some sort of compromise. We're looking at this as if Viacom will win their suit of a billion, however it's more likely that Viacom will drop the suit and compromise or flat out lose the suit.
The judge isn't going to be able to say, "well, you Youtube people are nice guys, so I'll just make you pay a hundred" if Viacom can prove that hundreds of thousands or millions or whatever # of viewers have gotten their copyrighted programming through Youtube thus costing them X number of potential dollars. And I don't see how it's likely that Viacom loses when Youtube is making money off of their material without permission. Napster couldn't get away with it, so why would Youtube? And no, Youtube cutting deals with other businesses doesn't pressure a giant like Viacom that is parent to numerous companies that are bigger than Youtube will ever be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Also, there's the issue of Viacom overreaching and demanding that youtube remove material that doesn't belong to Viacom (but rather private citizens) as they have already done. Should be a fun court battle if it comes to that... Unfortunately for Cuban, youtube will continue to be successful.
Any part of Viacom's suit that lacks merit can get dismissed, but overall, they've got a case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Youtube was bought, what, 5 months ago... Are we really looking for a profit? It seems that right now, Google is modifying and in fact creating a business model structure for youtube... something that Cuban didn't forsee happening for whatever reason. I'm sure they'll make back their 1 billion relatively quickly once they're settled. Yahoo took quite some time to make back their money when they bought broadcast.com from Cuban. It's the way things work... looking to the future and all...
If not profit, they should at least be on pace to show profit. So I ask, are they making any money? I highly doubt some internet video company makes a billion "quickly." The dot-com boom is over, no one makes a billion "quickly."


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
He seems overly concerned... perhaps a bit jealous even. If you know what broadcast.com was and is now, it seems too much of a coincidence that's he's been going after youtube.
He became a billionaire after he sold it and it was just an internet radio thing. I don't see the connection or why he would be jealous of Youtube.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
He's suggested that companies spam youtube with advertising videos as retribution... Why does he seem so invested in this fight against youtube?
Because he owns large stakes in Lions Gate films and HDNet and probably a bunch of other stuff. Youtube is competing with him and probably broadcasts lots of material copyrighted by his businesses and he's nto making money off of it.
Real Men Wear Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 10:04 PM   #28
JtotheIzzo
OOOHWEE Cleveland!!!
 
JtotheIzzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cavs Bandwagon
Posts: 13,399
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Google will sort it out with Viacom

I am sure some people just want their cut
JtotheIzzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2007, 11:33 PM   #29
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,376
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
The judge isn't going to be able to say, "well, you Youtube people are nice guys, so I'll just make you pay a hundred" if Viacom can prove that hundreds of thousands or millions or whatever # of viewers have gotten their copyrighted programming through Youtube thus costing them X number of potential dollars. And I don't see how it's likely that Viacom loses when Youtube is making money off of their material without permission. Napster couldn't get away with it, so why would Youtube? And no, Youtube cutting deals with other businesses doesn't pressure a giant like Viacom that is parent to numerous companies that are bigger than Youtube will ever be.

If youtube can demonstrate that they have acted speedily when asked to take down videos, that will work in their favor. Napster's problem was that it did nothing to curtail pirating, and even then the judges were lenient initially. Youtube on the other hand has gone as far as taking down videos that don't belong to Viacom when Viacom has alleged as such and requested their removal. Youtube and Napster are vastly different and should be treated as such.

Also, Viacom can't prove that Youtube has cost them any definite amount of money. The time frame is too narrow and there are too many variables to correctly deduce how much money Viacom has lost from television or web site broadcasts, or if they have lost any money at all. I've heard tell that many people have been turned on to shows because of youtube... The Daily Show especially... wouldn't it be interesting if youtube demonstrated that more people watch those shows because of youtube?

Instead, Viacom will most likely seek to collect damages based on the number of perceived copyright infringements. Youtube will likely show that they have been conciliatory and have taken steps to eliminate copyrighted media when asked or notified.

Quote:
Any part of Viacom's suit that lacks merit can get dismissed, but overall, they've got a case.

Yes, Viacom has a case, but not as strong as you may think, and the number of instances of copyright infringement may be one of the first things cast into doubt.

We also have to take into account how Youtube works. Napster dealt almost strictly in copyrighted audio... Though seemingly built for aspiring artists and a way of transfering music, the vast majority of file transfers were illegal. This isn't the case with youtube, where the majority of videos are there legally, and again, the site itself is working to remove videos uploaded in violation of site policy. In fact, youtube deletes accounts that have repeatedly uploaded copyrighted material.

Quote:
If not profit, they should at least be on pace to show profit. So I ask, are they making any money? I highly doubt some internet video company makes a billion "quickly." The dot-com boom is over, no one makes a billion "quickly."

I'm sure they're on their way to making profits, but I highly doubt they are making profits this early in the aquisition. They're still developing a solid business model in order to not only make youtube profitable, but lasting. It's simply unreasonable to ask if they're making any money right now. I doubt anyone at Google had hopes of buying youtube and quickly turning a profit this early or even in the near future. This seemed more like a longterm venture.

That's the reason I said "relatively quickly" and not simply "quickly."

Quote:
He became a billionaire after he sold it and it was just an internet radio thing. I don't see the connection or why he would be jealous of Youtube.


Yeah, most people don't know that broadcast.com also streamed video. In fact, they were one of the pioneers of online video streaming and delivery... after the Yahoo purchase, we basically got Launch out of it... No one seems to remember Mark Cuban for that contribution, though he does have his 3 billion dollars, but I suspect that the fact that people regard youtube as the vanguard of internet video irks Cuban a little, because it was really him at the forefront.

Quote:
Because he owns large stakes in Lions Gate films and HDNet and probably a bunch of other stuff. Youtube is competing with him and probably broadcasts lots of material copyrighted by his businesses and he's nto making money off of it.

If Youtube were broadcasting a lot of material that belonged to his businesses, he would have pushed to have his companies sue already... He wouldn't have been talking about it... he wouldn't still be talking about it... he would have pushed to do it.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2007, 01:18 AM   #30
reppy
Apparently likes anime
 
reppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,097
Default Re: Semi-OT: Picking up on Cuban vs. Youtube

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Is my ISP going to make money off of the mp3 I uploaded?

Geocities does. Can I sue them? If someone buys a DVD-RW and burns a movie with it, can I sue the manufacturer of the DVD burner?
reppy is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy