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Old 03-05-2014, 12:25 AM   #1
SamuraiSWISH
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Default '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Who do you have in the 7 game series? And which run was better, '08 - '10 Kobe or '96 - '98 Jordan? Let's hear the opinions.


33 year old Jordan (MVP, Champion, Fmvp)
'96: 30 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg on 50%
Playoffs: 31 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg on 46%

34 year old Jordan (Champion, Fmvp)
'97: 30 ppg, 6 rpg, 4 apg on 49%
Playoffs: 31 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg on 46%

35 year old Jordan (MVP, Champion, Fmvp)
'98: 29 ppg, 6 rpg, 4 apg on 47%
Playoffs: 32 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg on 46%

vs

29 year old Kobe (MVP)
'08: 28 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg on 46%
Playoffs: 30 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg on 48%

30 year old Kobe (Champions, Fmvp)
'09: 27 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg on 47%
Playoffs: 30 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg on 46%

31 year old Kobe (Champions, Fmvp)
'10: 27 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg on 46%
Playoffs: 29 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg on 46%

I personally think the Bulls win in a series v.s. these Lakers.

In regards to '96 - '98 MJ v.s. '08 - '10 Kobe ... I think accumlative Jordan had the better three year run, mainly because of his superior regular seasons, MVPs, and one more championship, plus lead his team to more impressive regular seasons.

But I actually found Kobe's playoffs to be more impressive. It's a shame he didn't win a championship in that 2008 run.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:44 AM   #2
DonDadda59
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Bulls crush them, I'm talking OKC/Dallas sweep style. Historically Bean has shit the bed vs. top defenses. In '96 the Bulls were the #1 defense, in '97 they were the #4 ranked defense, and in '98 they were #3 (with a sub 100 DRTG so you know what that means ). The only issue the Bulls would face would be the twin towers of Bynum/Gasol but if they were able to sweep a Shaq/Grant & Webber/Howard frontline, handle Ewing/Oakley, get by Smits/Davis bros... Gasoft and head case, always injured Bynum would be a cake walk for them. Rodman would render Pau as useless as a newborn calf

And how could you say Kobe's run was better when A) He outright choked against the Celtics (you can argue twice) B) his production was lower, despite him being 28-31 while Jordan was 32-35.

Are we just going to forget iconic moments like the flu game, the buzzer beater game winner against Utah in '97, the last legendary moments of game 6 in '98?
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
And how could you say Kobe's run was better when A) He outright choked against the Celtics (you can argue twice) B) his production was lower, despite him being 28-31 while Jordan was 32-35.
I agree with the rest of your post in regards to the matchup. Good post, bruhman.

But I never said Kobe's run was better. I said Jordan's was ... but Kobe increased his production more in the playoffs. His overall playoff body of work was more impressive on paper.

The ages of both were provided for context. Kobe was in his prime in his late 20's, early 30's. In 2010 he was just exiting it.

Where as MJ being 33 to 35 through out his run was clearly past his prime. His last prime years would've been '94, and '95.

Given the context of MJ's age, I think it sheds a different light on his playoffs. The skill, the evaporation of physical abilities, and just sheer will power or determination intangibles.

Bulls faced more 60 win teams, if I had to rank the top 10 competition teams faced:

1) 2008 Celtics
2) 1996 Magic
3) 1996 Sonics
4) 2010 Celtics
5) 1997 Heat

6) 1997 Jazz
7) 1998 Pacers
8) 1998 Jazz
9) 2009 Niggets
10) 2010 Magic
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
1) 2008 Celtics
2) 1996 Magic
3) 1996 Sonics
4) 2010 Celtics
5) 1997 Heat

6) 1997 Jazz
7) 1998 Pacers
8) 1998 Jazz
9) 2009 Niggets
10) 2010 Magic

Celtics look great on paper but they were taken to 7 by the Hawks (37-45 squad) in the first round, then 7 by the one man Cavs (45-37), and then 6 by the Pistons (the worst incarnation of that squad in the playoffs). As great as they were in the regular season, they were a very pedestrian playoff squad. Almost pulled a 07 Mavericks.

Those Jazz teams don't get the respect they deserve. They won 64 and 62 games in the reg season, one of them which featured the league MVP. In the playoffs they swept the western conference all star team in the WCF (Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Exel), beat the Duncan/Robinson Spurs, Hakeem/Barkley Rockets, and gave the Bulls hell. They weren't taken to the brink by lottery claiber teams in the first round.

Boston may have been the best (reg. season defensive squad) up there, even though Miami would give them a run for their money... they were definitely not the best playoff team, I'd rank the two Jazz teams above them. Don't know where every other team would be though. Might switch ORL and SEA.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
2009 Niggets
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

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Am I wrong doe

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Old 03-05-2014, 01:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
And how could you say Kobe's run was better when A) He outright choked against the Celtics (you can argue twice)
What were MJs numbers when he played the best defense in 96 and 97?
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
What were MJs numbers when he played the best defense in 96 and 97?
Past his prime MJ, doe?
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
Past his prime MJ, doe?
What stage he's at in his overall career is irrelevant to the premise of the thread. We're not comparing the two overall - just in this 3 year span
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

96 Bulls beat the 08 Lakers easily...

97 Bulls beat the 09 Lakers, but it's not easy...

98 Bulls vs 10 Lakers is hard...I'd go with the Bulls just because in a toss up I wouldn't bet against MJ, but I could see that series going either way
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzy
What stage he's at in his overall career is irrelevant to the premise of the thread
No, it really is ... that's the entire reason of why age was included to the premise of the thread I created. It provides more context.

Kobe was in his prime, for two of the three seasons, exiting it in the 2010 season.

MJ in the repeat three peat was firmly out of his prime from the very start. That needs to be accounted for ... he became a strict jump shooter.

If MJ was in his prime he had much more versatility to his offensive game since he could attack the basket with reckless abandon, as well as mix in the post game, and mid range jumper.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
No, it really is ... that's the entire reason of why age was included to the premise of the thread I created. It provides more context.

Kobe was in his prime, for two of the three seasons, exiting it in the 2010 season.

MJ in the repeat three peat was firmly out of his prime from the very start. That needs to be accounted for ... he became a strict jump shooter.

If MJ was in his prime he had much more versatility to his offensive game since he could attack the basket with reckless abandon, as well as mix in the post game, and mid range jumper.


I don't see how this makes sense given the premise. The 96-98 Bulls had an older Jordan...why compare the teams if you are going to start grading on an age curve?

Why do it at all? If you put prime MJ on those teams it's not even a question...the Bulls win all three years easily...
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I don't see how this makes sense given the premise. The 96-98 Bulls had an older Jordan...why compare the teams if you are going to start grading on an age curve?

Why do it at all? If you put prime MJ on those teams it's not even a question...the Bulls win all three years easily...
I'm giving context to the mini argument chazzy brought up in regards to MJ's production against the best defense in the league (not named the Bulls) in the playoffs / Finals. His averages v.s. '96 Sonics, and '97 Heat. He was comparing prime Kobe's production v.s. great defense against past prime Jordan's production v.s. great defense. That's all.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
I'm giving context to the mini argument chazzy brought up in regards to MJ's production against the best defense in the league (not named the Bulls) in the playoffs / Finals. His averages v.s. '96 Sonics, and '97 Heat. He was comparing prime Kobe's production v.s. great defense against past prime Jordan's production v.s. great defense. That's all.
I understand that Jordan wasn't at his 90-93 hyper elite self, but everything's fair game when we're just comparing the two in these 3 year windows
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: '08 - '10 Lakers v.s. '96 - '98 Bulls

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
I'm giving context to the mini argument chazzy brought up in regards to MJ's production against the best defense in the league (not named the Bulls) in the playoffs / Finals. His averages v.s. '96 Sonics, and '97 Heat. He was comparing prime Kobe's production v.s. great defense against past prime Jordan's production v.s. great defense. That's all.

Ok, but that is part of the equation when comparing two teams or two players.

We don't compare prime/peak MJ to any version of Kobe because it's not close.

96-98 MJ vs 08-10 Kobe is at least comparable...I think MJ was like 10% better still or so, but you can't just grade on a curve when talking about specific years.
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