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Old 01-01-2014, 02:27 PM   #1
julizaver
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Default Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

As I promised:

Game 1 17.04.1973 - Lakers win 101-99

Wilt 44 min 4 pts (2-5 FG, 0-0 FT), 25 rebs, 2 asts, 8 blks
Nate 48 min 22 pts (8-21 FG, 6-7 FT), 26 rebs, 5 asts

Game 2 19.04.1973 - Lakers win 104-93

Wilt 48 min 5 pts (1-3 FG, 3-4 FT), 30 rebs, 4 asts, 7* blks
Nate 47 min 16 pts (8-20 FG, 0-0 FT), 14 rebs, 6 asts

Game 3 21.04.1973 - Lakers win 126-70

Wilt 39 min 12 pts (2-2 FG, 8-10 FT), 23 rebs, 3 asts, 8 blks
Nate 37 min 9 pts (3-13 FG, 3-4 FT), 13 rebs, 2 asts

Game 4 23.04.1973 - Warriors win 117-109

Wilt 48 min 9 pts (4-6 FG, 1-1 FT), 16 rebs, 3 asts
Nate 47 min 23 pts (10-20 FG, 3-3 FT), 18 rebs, 3 asts

Game 5 25.04.1973 - Lakers win 128-118

Wilt 46 min 5 pts (2-2 FG, 1-3 FT), 22 rebs, 7 asts, 6 blks
Nate 32 min 9 pts (2-9 FG, 5-7 FT), 15 rebs, 5 asts

*Estimation based on known information about Wilt blocked 23 shots in first 3 meetings with Warriors.

Series averages:

Wilt 45.0 mpg 7 ppg (on 0.611 FG, 0.722 FT), 23.6 rpg, 3.8 apg
Nate 42.2 mpg 15.8 ppg (on 0.373 FG, 0.810 FT), 17.2 rpg, 4.2 apg

Unofficial stats:
Wilt with 29 blocked shots in 4 known games.

Last edited by julizaver : 01-01-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by julizaver
As I promised:

Game 1 17.04.1973 - Lakers win 101-99

Wilt 44 min 4 pts (2-5 FG, 0-0 FT), 25 rebs, 2 asts, 8 blks
Nate 48 min 22 pts (8-21 FG, 6-7 FT), 26 rebs, 5 asts

Game 2 19.04.1973 - Lakers win 104-93

Wilt 48 min 5 pts (1-3 FG, 3-4 FT), 30 rebs, 4 asts, 5* blks
Nate 47 min 16 pts (8-20 FG, 0-0 FT), 14 rebs, 6 asts

Game 3 21.04.1973 - Lakers win 126-70

Wilt 39 min 12 pts (2-2 FG, 8-10 FT), 23 rebs, 3 asts, 8 blks
Nate 37 min 9 pts (3-13 FG, 3-4 FT), 13 rebs, 2 asts

Game 4 23.04.1973 - Warriors win 117-109

Wilt 48 min 9 pts (4-6 FG, 1-1 FT), 16 rebs, 3 asts
Nate 47 min 23 pts (10-20 FG, 3-3 FT), 18 rebs, 3 asts

Game 5 25.04.1973 - Lakers win 128-118

Wilt 46 min 5 pts (2-2 FG, 1-3 FT), 22 rebs, 7 asts, 6 blks
Nate 32 min 9 pts (2-9 FG, 5-7 FT), 15 rebs, 5 asts

*My estimation based on komwn information about Wilt blocked 70 shots in first 10 games (49 against Bulls and 21 in first 3 meetings with Warriors)

Series averages:

Wilt 45.0 mpg 7 ppg (on 0.611 FG, 0.722 FT), 23.6 rpg, 3.8 apg
Nate 42.2 mpg 15.8 ppg (on 0.373 FG, 0.810 FT), 17.2 rpg, 4.2 apg

Unofficial stats:
Wilt with 27 blocked shots in 4 known games.

Of course it is not "official" but I was actually at game three in that series, and I had Wilt with 11 blocks.

I will never forget...at halftime they had dogs catching frisbees (pretty amazing stuff), and then at the start of the second half, the Lakers went on a tear in the first couple of minutes, and essentailly blew the game wide open. After a quick timeout, a Warrior fan sitting behind me stood up, and yelled, "Bring back the frisbee show!"

As for the series...Wilt outshot Nate from the floor, .611 to .373. And during the regular season, and in their six H2H's, Chamberlain outshot Kareem, .737 to .450. Granted, Chamberlain was not taking many shots, but still, in one H2H game with Kareem that season, he outscored him, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. Oh, and in the first round of the playoffs, Nate and the Warriors shocked the 60-22 Bucks, 4-2, in a series in which Thurmond held KAJ to .428 shooting.

Last edited by LAZERUSS : 01-01-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
Of course it is not "official" but I was actually at game three in that series, and I had Wilt with 11 blocks.

I will never forget...at halftime they had dogs catching frisbees (pretty amazing stuff), and then at the start of the second half, the Lakers went on a tear in the first couple of minutes, and essentailly blew the game wide open. After a quick timeout, a Warrior fan sitting behind me stood up, and yelled, "Bring back the frisbee show!"

As for the series...Wilt outshot Nate from the floor, .611 to .373. And during the regular season, and in their six H2H's, Chamberlain outshot Kareem, .737 to .450. Granted, Chamberlain was not taking many shots, but still, in one H2H game with Kareem that season, he outscored him, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. Oh, and in the first round of the playoffs, Nate and the Warriors shocked the 60-22 Bucks, 4-2, in a series in which Thurmond held KAJ to .428 shooting.



Wilt average 7ppg playing 45 minutes, who cares what % he shot? That's Kendrick Perkins type production, but against shorter, less athletic competition and with LA market hype making the refs gift him FTs and foul benefits
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
*My estimation based on komwn information about Wilt blocked 70 shots in first 10 games (49 against Bulls and 21 in first 3 meetings with Warriors)

I didn't keep sources, but I had Wilt at 23 blocked shots in these 3 games (8+7+8). Also, I have noted that he had "many" blocks in game 4 and 6 in game 5.
To go one step beyond, I have also seen at least one sourse credit him with 7 blocks in Game 1 of the 1973 Finals, 7 in Game 3 and he had 1 or 2 in Game 5. So, this would give him 92-95 blocked shots in 14 out of his 17 playoff games that postseason.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psileas
I didn't keep sources, but I had Wilt at 23 blocked shots in these 3 games (8+7+8). Also, I have noted that he had "many" blocks in game 4 and 6 in game 5.
To go one step beyond, I have also seen at least one sourse credit him with 7 blocks in Game 1 of the 1973 Finals, 7 in Game 3 and he had 1 or 2 in Game 5. So, this would give him 92-95 blocked shots in 14 out of his 17 playoff games that postseason.

I checked again for these 3 games and you are right about 23 blocked shots after first three games. I have such info also in my notes. Also found another source about Wilt blocking nearly "two dozen shots" in those 3 games.
My initial estimation was based on article about Wilt averaging 7 bpg in first 10 games (calculate it at 70) so I will correct accordingly.

I also have Wilt with 7+7 games in the Finals.
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Wilt was a good player, very good. Just wasn't the great player Mikan once was.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
Of course it is not "official" but I was actually at game three in that series, and I had Wilt with 11 blocks.

I will never forget...at halftime they had dogs catching frisbees (pretty amazing stuff), and then at the start of the second half, the Lakers went on a tear in the first couple of minutes, and essentailly blew the game wide open. After a quick timeout, a Warrior fan sitting behind me stood up, and yelled, "Bring back the frisbee show!"

As for the series...Wilt outshot Nate from the floor, .611 to .373. And during the regular season, and in their six H2H's, Chamberlain outshot Kareem, .737 to .450. Granted, Chamberlain was not taking many shots, but still, in one H2H game with Kareem that season, he outscored him, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. Oh, and in the first round of the playoffs, Nate and the Warriors shocked the 60-22 Bucks, 4-2, in a series in which Thurmond held KAJ to .428 shooting.

There is a correlation between number of shots taken and FG% you know. Wilt took 18 shots in the series while Nate took 83. It's foolish to take the FG% difference at face value when one guy took over 4 times as many shots.

In the 72-73 season series against Kareem (where he outshot him .737 to .450) Wilt took a total of 38 shots compared to 180 for Kareem. Anyways why don't you also post what happened in the other 5 games they played that season?

In the '72 WCF (where Kareem outshot Wilt 45.7% to 45.2% BTW) Wilt took a total of 42 shots while Kareem took 197.

It's ridiculously stupid to compare FG% of players taking vastly different numbers of shots.

Congrats to the OP for another informative thread!

From the stats and the recaps I've read it seems Nate definitely got the better of Wilt in Game 1 and 4. Chamberlain did outplay him in the other 3 games though which is quite impressive considering his age.
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by dankok8
There is a correlation between number of shots taken and FG% you know. Wilt took 18 shots in the series while Nate took 83. It's foolish to take the FG% difference at face value when one guy took over 4 times as many shots.

In the 72-73 season series against Kareem (where he outshot him .737 to .450) Wilt took a total of 38 shots compared to 180 for Kareem. Anyways why don't you also post what happened in the other 5 games they played that season?

In the '72 WCF (where Kareem outshot Wilt 45.7% to 45.2% BTW) Wilt took a total of 42 shots while Kareem took 197.

It's ridiculously stupid to compare FG% of players taking vastly different numbers of shots.

Congrats to the OP for another informative thread!

From the stats and the recaps I've read it seems Nate definitely got the better of Wilt in Game 1 and 4. Chamberlain did outplay him in the other 3 games though which is quite impressive considering his age.

I agree with some of this...but your point about KAJ outshooting Chamberlain in the '72 WCF's is also mis-leading. Kareem shot .457 in that series, which was not much more than the regular season NBA at .455 (and way below Kareem's .574 regular season FG%.) Furthermore, he couldn't hit a shot for his life in the last four games of that series, only going .414...and was HURTING his team. Wilt missed a total of 20 shots in that series, so his .452 was basically meaningless.

At a certain point, it all boils down to this...who is the worse shooter, the guy who shoots 1-4, or the guy who shoots 10-30?

As for the rest of the Wilt-Nate and Wilt-KAJ post-season H2H's, Chamberlain was considerably more efficient from the field, a much better rebounder, a much better shot-blocker, and a better team defender, as well. And once again, he reduced KAJ and Nate to just horrible shooting.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller for 3


Wilt average 7ppg playing 45 minutes, who cares what % he shot? That's Kendrick Perkins type production, but against shorter, less athletic competition and with LA market hype making the refs gift him FTs and foul benefits

lulz

Chamberlain seldom took any shots at all by that time, virtually all of his scoring was putbacks. He was a purely defensive C by then, not even 4th option. You'd know that if you knew anything about '70s NBA.

Competition? This exact thread is talking about his competition, 6'11 Nate Thurmond & 7'3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - both supremely better players than any and every center in today's NBA.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
lulz

Chamberlain seldom took any shots at all by that time, virtually all of his scoring was putbacks. He was a purely defensive C by then, not even 4th option. You'd know that if you knew anything about '70s NBA.

Competition? This exact thread is talking about his competition, 6'11 Nate Thurmond & 7'3 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - both supremely better players than any and every center in today's NBA.

And a prime Chamberlain dominated Thurmond FAR more than a prime KAJ did, too.

How about this...(and thanks to Julizaver BTW)...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=291462

And I have read others who used KAJ and Nate H2H's after that '73 season. But Thurmond was already in a rapid state of decline in that 73-74 season (a huge dropoff from 72-73), and was basically on the bench after that.

Meanwhile, a "scoring" Wilt just pummelled Thurmond at BOTH ends of the floor in their H2H's, and even into Wilt's 66-67 season (in which he dramatically cut back his scoring)...and in which Wilt had as many 30+ games in their first 12, as KAJ did against Nate in some 40-50 H2Hs. And, Chamberlain was waxing Nate by margins of 38-15 and 45-13 in two of those games. A prime KAJ never approached those numbers, nor that domination.
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

@La Frescobaldi
Why did you waste time responding to that troll? That's just what they want, so that they can derail quality historical threads such as this with their puerile agendas. Just ignore them as the previous posters did.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

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Originally Posted by jlip
@La Frescobaldi
Why did you waste time responding to that troll? That's just what they want, so that they can derail quality historical threads such as this with their puerile agendas. Just ignore them as the previous posters did.

A lot of people actually believe that tripe.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
I agree with some of this...but your point about KAJ outshooting Chamberlain in the '72 WCF's is also mis-leading. Kareem shot .457 in that series, which was not much more than the regular season NBA at .455 (and way below Kareem's .574 regular season FG%.) Furthermore, he couldn't hit a shot for his life in the last four games of that series, only going .414...and was HURTING his team. Wilt missed a total of 20 shots in that series, so his .452 was basically meaningless.

At a certain point, it all boils down to this...who is the worse shooter, the guy who shoots 1-4, or the guy who shoots 10-30?

As for the rest of the Wilt-Nate and Wilt-KAJ post-season H2H's, Chamberlain was considerably more efficient from the field, a much better rebounder, a much better shot-blocker, and a better team defender, as well. And once again, he reduced KAJ and Nate to just horrible shooting.

They guy with 1-4 (25%) is worse... imagine what he would shoot if he took 30 shots?

Truth is both teams in the '72 WCF shot an atrocious % that Kareem's 45.7% mark was actually pretty good. See below.

Anyways here is what Wilt himself said on the outcome of the series... "We weren't out there to beat Kareem (Jabbar). He had a fantastic series, but we just did things as a team."

And it's true... McMillian scored a career-high 42 points to save Game 2 which LA won by 1 point. If Bucks went up 2-0 it would probably be over and yet Jim is never praised for one of the greatest performances by a role player ever!

Then West who struggled all series long took over the 4th quarter of Game 6 alongside Wilt.

Here are the overall stats for the '72 WCF series:

Bucks - 43.8% shooting, 59.7 rebounds per game, 22.0 FTA's per game
Lakers - 40.5% shooting, 55.7 rebounds per game, 36.5 FTA's per game

The free throw disparity seems enormous and in fact articles mention that Bucks coach Larry Costello was complaining about the officiating a lot.

Notice the low shooting % also...

I'm willing to bet that the Bucks also lost this series because with Oscar injured and back-up guards as well (McGlocklin and Jones) their ball-handling was horrific. Their turnovers were probably through the roof.
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Old 01-04-2014, 06:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wilt Chamberlain vs Nate Thurmond 1973 WCF

Quote:
Originally Posted by dankok8
They guy with 1-4 (25%) is worse... imagine what he would shoot if he took 30 shots?

Truth is both teams in the '72 WCF shot an atrocious % that Kareem's 45.7% mark was actually pretty good. See below.

Anyways here is what Wilt himself said on the outcome of the series... "We weren't out there to beat Kareem (Jabbar). He had a fantastic series, but we just did things as a team."

And it's true... McMillian scored a career-high 42 points to save Game 2 which LA won by 1 point. If Bucks went up 2-0 it would probably be over and yet Jim is never praised for one of the greatest performances by a role player ever!

Then West who struggled all series long took over the 4th quarter of Game 6 alongside Wilt.

Here are the overall stats for the '72 WCF series:

Bucks - 43.8% shooting, 59.7 rebounds per game, 22.0 FTA's per game
Lakers - 40.5% shooting, 55.7 rebounds per game, 36.5 FTA's per game

The free throw disparity seems enormous and in fact articles mention that Bucks coach Larry Costello was complaining about the officiating a lot.

Notice the low shooting % also...

I'm willing to bet that the Bucks also lost this series because with Oscar injured and back-up guards as well (McGlocklin and Jones) their ball-handling was horrific. Their turnovers were probably through the roof.

KAJ shot .414 in the last four games of that series, three of them Laker wins, including two in Milwaukee (and a blowout win in LA in game five.)

If KAJ outplayed Wilt in that series, it was by a small margin. And once again, this was a PEAK Kareem, and an old Wilt (playing on a surgically repaired knee.)

It's too bad we didn't get to see a PEAK Chamberlain going H2H with a peak Kareem.
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