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Old 12-21-2013, 05:26 AM   #76
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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As much as I like CP3, I would take Westbrook to start a team. Don't sleep on Steph Curry, he's doing some good things this season with stats to match CP3.
Ask yourself, would the Clippers be better with Westbrook, would the Thunder be better with CP3......this is one reason I give the nod to Westbrook but it is close.
Rondo....I would love the guy if he could shoot, it's a real shame he hasn't really improved. Rose is too injury prone or he would be #1.


Great answer, albeit to a degree I disagree but I'm happy to take your opinion into account (great quote regarding maturity of a person is the ability to accept and evaluate other peoples opinions while disagreeing with their opinion), the Thunder will go as far as Westbrook takes them, Durant showed how much they struggle without Westbrook Durant carried them but Westbrook makes them flow, would they go further with CP3? I don't know hypothetical and all I think Durant would certainly love playing with a more pass first general like Paul but as for further as a team I think they almost would, CP3 imo is the best all around point guard but I think Westbrook is a phenomenal player and athlete just not the best point due to his passing so far in his career not being as good as it could be or not as willing but he's been better this year. I think Clippers would be worse swapping with Westbrook because of how much Paul helps the other players, like Jordan who isn't a shot creator relies on passes and lobs from Paul etc just my opinion of course and I'm not saying I'm entirely right just felt like I need to clarify. If I could take any guard to start a franchise? I might take Curry because of his all around potential, he's an amazing shooter but he's beginning to drive more, once he improves his defense his assists and running the point are already more dangerous because people are looking to try and close him down to prevent him shooting (so then if he becomes strong enough to drive past them then he has an all around offensive package) your thinking will he shoot as a 40+% 3 point shooter? If he becomes a great passer will he pass? Will he drive for a floater? If he can add strength and more passing wow he could be special because of how good he is already without being that multi faceted or as much as he could be.

Agreed on Rondo, I quite like Rondo, I enjoy his passion and passing its just so annoying how poor his shooting has been and his free throw shooting hasn't improved (big hands, players like Shaq, Wilt with huge hands and for his size Rondo's are big to memory). If he could shoot with his defense and floor general leadership my goodness he'd be so great but I think it's starting to be a bit late now at 26 or so. In the present if your starting a franchise what position are you starting with to start a franchise? Are you picking a small/point forward (say LeBron) first or are you going for a point guard first or a start shooting guard, what position in this era would you pick to start a franchise with?
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:08 AM   #77
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Are yall watching? Pau's playing like 2010 Pau O.o

He's had a great 3 games, just kind of learnt although being a big Pau fan kind of not to get my hopes up haha, learnt the last 2-3 years that if I do after a few games I've tended to get disappointed, hopefully he keeps it up, certainly looked good just hopefully he continues being like it and doesn't go back into his shell. Young was rather efficient too. Overall a good team win, Meeks 3 point shooting deserted him a little but that happens doesn't always take the smartest threes (might be a bit hypercritical).
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:50 AM   #78
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Great answer, albeit to a degree I disagree but I'm happy to take your opinion into account (great quote regarding maturity of a person is the ability to accept and evaluate other peoples opinions while disagreeing with their opinion), the Thunder will go as far as Westbrook takes them, Durant showed how much they struggle without Westbrook Durant carried them but Westbrook makes them flow, would they go further with CP3? I don't know hypothetical and all I think Durant would certainly love playing with a more pass first general like Paul but as for further as a team I think they almost would, CP3 imo is the best all around point guard but I think Westbrook is a phenomenal player and athlete just not the best point due to his passing so far in his career not being as good as it could be or not as willing but he's been better this year. I think Clippers would be worse swapping with Westbrook because of how much Paul helps the other players, like Jordan who isn't a shot creator relies on passes and lobs from Paul etc just my opinion of course and I'm not saying I'm entirely right just felt like I need to clarify. If I could take any guard to start a franchise? I might take Curry because of his all around potential, he's an amazing shooter but he's beginning to drive more, once he improves his defense his assists and running the point are already more dangerous because people are looking to try and close him down to prevent him shooting (so then if he becomes strong enough to drive past them then he has an all around offensive package) your thinking will he shoot as a 40+% 3 point shooter? If he becomes a great passer will he pass? Will he drive for a floater? If he can add strength and more passing wow he could be special because of how good he is already without being that multi faceted or as much as he could be.

Agreed on Rondo, I quite like Rondo, I enjoy his passion and passing its just so annoying how poor his shooting has been and his free throw shooting hasn't improved (big hands, players like Shaq, Wilt with huge hands and for his size Rondo's are big to memory). If he could shoot with his defense and floor general leadership my goodness he'd be so great but I think it's starting to be a bit late now at 26 or so. In the present if your starting a franchise what position are you starting with to start a franchise? Are you picking a small/point forward (say LeBron) first or are you going for a point guard first or a start shooting guard, what position in this era would you pick to start a franchise with?

Great post excellent reasoning, and I actually agree with the points you made especially when it comes to Paul passing to Jordan.
I do think that when you want to win a championship, you have to have that TAKE OVER THE GAME type guy like Kobe, like Lebron, like MJ and as nice a team as the Clippers have, I don't see that type of guy on the team, CP3 does it sometimes and certainly can do it more often, but that is not his role and not his pure nature. If the Clippers had one of those guys on the team then of course I would take Paul over Westbrook....it's all about the title.

Interesting question you asked....Which position would I pick to start a team.
It would entirely depend on who the coach was and what was the strength of his offensive scheme. There is no reason that you wouldn't take Kareem or Wilt...or Shaq were they young today to start your franchise.....but if 'Antoni was your coach then it would be a horrible mistake. So with that thought in mind, I wouldn't just set my mind on a position. If I were the owner and didn't have a coach then I would look strictly at talent and first take a guy who could take over a game, then fit in complimentary pieces.

Could a team today average 110 points per game without jacking a bunch of 3's......Absolutely, so no need to think that dominant guy has to be a SG or SF. Talent at any position with the right coach to use and maximize his skill set is the most important thing.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:07 AM   #79
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Great post excellent reasoning, and I actually agree with the points you made especially when it comes to Paul passing to Jordan.
I do think that when you want to win a championship, you have to have that TAKE OVER THE GAME type guy like Kobe, like Lebron, like MJ and as nice a team as the Clippers have, I don't see that type of guy on the team, CP3 does it sometimes and certainly can do it more often, but that is not his role and not his pure nature. If the Clippers had one of those guys on the team then of course I would take Paul over Westbrook....it's all about the title.

Interesting question you asked....Which position would I pick to start a team.
It would entirely depend on who the coach was and what was the strength of his offensive scheme. There is no reason that you wouldn't take Kareem or Wilt...or Shaq were they young today to start your franchise.....but if 'Antoni was your coach then it would be a horrible mistake. So with that thought in mind, I wouldn't just set my mind on a position. If I were the owner and didn't have a coach then I would look strictly at talent and first take a guy who could take over a game, then fit in complimentary pieces.

Could a team today average 110 points per game without jacking a bunch of 3's......Absolutely, so no need to think that dominant guy has to be a SG or SF. Talent at any position with the right coach to use and maximize his skill set is the most important thing.

Thank you, I take it I've got approval as a poster lmao , I just think that the Clippers would need Paul more than Westbrook because of the effect, maybe if you had more shot creators on the team but really a lot of the Clippers roster needs Paul, although Westbrook would be good he wouldn't pass enough or get enough assists to make the offense flow as the more altruistic Chris Paul does in my opinion alone. I think Paul is the better point guard simply because of how he involves others especially and can score when he needs to, he really does have the potential to be 20-10 player hasn't really done that since New Orleans but has done great this year with Doc. I see your point but I think Paul is a pretty clutch player, I think maybe at times he is a little umm passive but he's a consummate professional and an amazing competitor I think he does have that take over element to him when he needs to, does he do it often enough? Maybe not but I think he certainly has that potential, I think in the late 4th quarter if it's not him it's probably Jamal Crawford who can be a great shot creator off the dribble.

I agree it was probably a little too much of an open ended question to ask, apologies for that, I kind of just hear a lot of the point guard era and how many athletic point guards there are, how it's the most athletic group of point guards (I don't agree it's the best era because most of the point guards today are shoot first guards that don't make their teams better or as much as the great points did). I think I'd take a dominant center right now although we had Dwight he wasn't quite the Dwight of old that he was before his back surgery I mean he isn't a gifted offensive center he was just very dominant athletically no one could stop him from dunking or powering his way through, he's a physical specimen but he's 6"9 (without shoes) so I think it shows the lack of quality centers I think it's arguable it's the weakest era of centers in a LONG time (and people think Wilt or even some have said Kareem would struggle in this era hahaha ). But I agree overall depends on the coach and the setup and the schemes, well D'Antoni did have Shaq once even though Shaq was getting fat then haha but he wasn't horrible but didn't fit the system at all partly due to the 4 shooters 1 pivot setup it is. Who do you think is the best power forward in the NBA, I see a lot Kevin Love and I'd agree....offensively but defensively and overall I think it's Lamarcus Aldridge unlike what some think defense does count and Love's interior defense is rather average, Love isn't the 3 point shooter near of Love but he's got a good mid range game and solid post game, rebounding not quite Love's but still good, anyway do you think is better/more talented and best power forward in the game?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #80
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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Thank you, I take it I've got approval as a poster lmao , I just think that the Clippers would need Paul more than Westbrook because of the effect, maybe if you had more shot creators on the team but really a lot of the Clippers roster needs Paul, although Westbrook would be good he wouldn't pass enough or get enough assists to make the offense flow as the more altruistic Chris Paul does in my opinion alone. I think Paul is the better point guard simply because of how he involves others especially and can score when he needs to, he really does have the potential to be 20-10 player hasn't really done that since New Orleans but has done great this year with Doc. I see your point but I think Paul is a pretty clutch player, I think maybe at times he is a little umm passive but he's a consummate professional and an amazing competitor I think he does have that take over element to him when he needs to, does he do it often enough? Maybe not but I think he certainly has that potential, I think in the late 4th quarter if it's not him it's probably Jamal Crawford who can be a great shot creator off the dribble.

I agree it was probably a little too much of an open ended question to ask, apologies for that, I kind of just hear a lot of the point guard era and how many athletic point guards there are, how it's the most athletic group of point guards (I don't agree it's the best era because most of the point guards today are shoot first guards that don't make their teams better or as much as the great points did). I think I'd take a dominant center right now although we had Dwight he wasn't quite the Dwight of old that he was before his back surgery I mean he isn't a gifted offensive center he was just very dominant athletically no one could stop him from dunking or powering his way through, he's a physical specimen but he's 6"9 (without shoes) so I think it shows the lack of quality centers I think it's arguable it's the weakest era of centers in a LONG time (and people think Wilt or even some have said Kareem would struggle in this era hahaha ). But I agree overall depends on the coach and the setup and the schemes, well D'Antoni did have Shaq once even though Shaq was getting fat then haha but he wasn't horrible but didn't fit the system at all partly due to the 4 shooters 1 pivot setup it is. Who do you think is the best power forward in the NBA, I see a lot Kevin Love and I'd agree....offensively but defensively and overall I think it's Lamarcus Aldridge unlike what some think defense does count and Love's interior defense is rather average, Love isn't the 3 point shooter near of Love but he's got a good mid range game and solid post game, rebounding not quite Love's but still good, anyway do you think is better/more talented and best power forward in the game?

I guess with the Clippers it boils down to whether you think they can win the title with the crew they have or not. I say NOT, yes CP3 can hit a ton of clutch shots but is he going to take them every time with the game on the line? In a 7 game series is he going to be the closeout shooter to win 4 games or will he pass on the shot 4 times and take it 3 times?
This is a tough call between Westbrook and Paul, no question about it.

You can't go wrong with Aldridge or Love...it's a pick 'em.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:40 PM   #81
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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I guess with the Clippers it boils down to whether you think they can win the title with the crew they have or not. I say NOT, yes CP3 can hit a ton of clutch shots but is he going to take them every time with the game on the line? In a 7 game series is he going to be the closeout shooter to win 4 games or will he pass on the shot 4 times and take it 3 times?
This is a tough call between Westbrook and Paul, no question about it.

You can't go wrong with Aldridge or Love...it's a pick 'em.

As long as they have DJ & Griffin they are not winning anything. Both cant make a shot outside 5ft to save their life...where is the front court depth for them? Jamison...lol....Mullens...double LOL

other then that who is their SF & SG? Reddick/dudley maybe r good but can they hit shots all series long?
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #82
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As long as they have DJ & Griffin they are not winning anything. Both cant make a shot outside 5ft to save their life...where is the front court depth for them? Jamison...lol....Mullens...double LOL

other then that who is their SF & SG? Reddick/dudley maybe r good but can they hit shots all series long?

They lack too much interior defense, Jordan has I suppose improved his blocking and rebounding numbers are up (but that could kind of be inflated if Griffin's defense isn't good in a game he'll have the opportunity to come in as the second man to swat away shots), Griffin's defense has a lot of work to be done so does a lot of players. Griffin is still improving he's not just dunks he can occasionally hit a mid range jumper (nowhere near consistently) Jordan is just an oops and dunk finisher, Griffin is improving his post game slowly, Jordan desperately needs to improve his, they need some toughness and interior defense they need an enforcer/bruiser some might say DJ is but I don't think he is that much. They have no defense as well for their backups, Jamison...defense hmm umm no, and Mullens isn't a defender either he's a stretch 4 that isn't that good at anything else or even as a consistent stretch threat he's not that good. They have enforcers/physical players like Jackson and Barnes but neither of them are true power forwards or centers or actual big in height physical presences.

I'd back them two to make shots but I wouldn't back them to score 15-20 points a game for a series usually, they are both deadly shooters extremely deadly but not really shot creators, the whole offense whether it's DJ finishing or Reddick and Dudley shooting is mainly predominant on Paul driving, attacking and dishing, Crawford is about the only other one that can create shots for himself and maybe Collison due to his quickness but you generally need two true shot creators and two that can handle the ball, if Paul doesn't handle it then it's Crawford and his shot selection can be very sketchy and can shoot too much at times from what I can tell.
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:36 AM   #83
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

You guys are hurting my brain writing all these paragraphs. haha keep it up, guys.

@Lakers91 - I'm guessing you'll disappear after the holiday break? Don't leave us!
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:22 AM   #84
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You guys are hurting my brain writing all these paragraphs. haha keep it up, guys.

@Lakers91 - I'm guessing you'll disappear after the holiday break? Don't leave us!

, I tend to get carried away typing can't help it , no I don't reckon probably now I've started posting more will probably keep doing it just each morning or whatever don't really have time at night/that's the time I prefer to do my assignments and sports/cricket/tennis training etc is at night so have to do it in the morning just never remember to.
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Old 12-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #85
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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As long as they have DJ & Griffin they are not winning anything. Both cant make a shot outside 5ft to save their life...where is the front court depth for them? Jamison...lol....Mullens...double LOL

other then that who is their SF & SG? Reddick/dudley maybe r good but can they hit shots all series long?

That being said....and I do agree, who do you and others think they would be better with Paul or Westbrook? (This is not about who the better player is.)
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:22 PM   #86
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That being said....and I do agree, who do you and others think they would be better with Paul or Westbrook? (This is not about who the better player is.)

Depends which Westbrook , if it's the Westbrook that can distribute like I know he at times did or did in his rookie season or 2nd year when he averaged 8or 9 assists or close to it, if he can improve on that then I think the Clippers would be better with Westbrook (if he can do what Paul can do and create shots for others, that's big whether he can) but I also think Paul would make the Thunder just that bit better because of the similar problem OKC has, he could not only create shots for Durant who can make them on his own but more so Durant finally has a legitimate pass first floor general that can get others involved and reduces the burden assists/offense flow wise on Durant. I think there is an argument each could be better for the other team just because of the way each could or does play.
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Old 12-27-2013, 03:32 PM   #87
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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As much as I like CP3, I would take Westbrook to start a team. Don't sleep on Steph Curry, he's doing some good things this season with stats to match CP3.
Ask yourself, would the Clippers be better with Westbrook, would the Thunder be better with CP3......this is one reason I give the nod to Westbrook but it is close.
Rondo....I would love the guy if he could shoot, it's a real shame he hasn't really improved. Rose is too injury prone or he would be #1.

I had a heated debate with my boss about Westbrook. He said the Thunder has ZERO chance of winning as long as Westbrook is on the team.
I said, Russel is perfect for his team bec of the limitations of his teammates. Thabo and Perkins are SO LIMITED offensively plus Durant is no Kobe (yet) interms of taking over the team and be prepared to score 45 pts if needed be.
But Im not sure if Westbrook can make the Clipper better tho. with good shooters/scorers like Reddick, Dudley and Crawford etc.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:39 AM   #88
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I had a heated debate with my boss about Westbrook. He said the Thunder has ZERO chance of winning as long as Westbrook is on the team.
I said, Russel is perfect for his team bec of the limitations of his teammates. Thabo and Perkins are SO LIMITED offensively plus Durant is no Kobe (yet) interms of taking over the team and be prepared to score 45 pts if needed be.
But Im not sure if Westbrook can make the Clipper better tho. with good shooters/scorers like Reddick, Dudley and Crawford etc.

It's rather harsh on Westbrook, the Thunder do go as far as he takes them really as shown last year, he's an integral part along with Durant, although he has a lot to work on in terms of passing and assists he is an extremely athletic dominant player that at times is truly unguardable it's just he gets a bit too shot happy at times but he's a shooting guard or at least shooting guard mentality trying to play point guard he's probably big enough to play shooting guard if they wanted to he's probably 6"4 but I'm not sure how much he weighs, he is averaging something like 22 and 7 it's hardly the worst especially for a score first point guard, they lost their sixth man well traded him in Harden, they got Lamb who is a nice enough prospect, they then had a one year rental in Martin, Ibaka is a decent 3rd scoring option I suppose but he's inconsistent on offense can score in the paint, can be a stretch 4 with the mid range jumper at times but doesn't really do that to really be called a true stretch 4 from what I've seen anyway but he converts overall at over 50% and he's an intimidating defender (his blocks can at times make him overrated as a defender but he's hardly a bad one), I don't think they can wait for Perkins to come off the books , it's a pity for them Harden was traded/either whether you think Harden was selfish wanted the max or whether Thunder was cheap not wanting to give him the max to avoid the luxury tax (or idiotic for signing Ibaka to such a large extension) where you stand it was certainly a pity. The players are so limited offensively which is partly why it's good having Westbrook but it'd possibly be just as good if not better having Paul because of potentially being able to get them open looks off passes etc, I think Westbrook can be the more unguardable player on his day or more explosive but I think Paul is better overall. But in terms of them having zero percent chance I agree with you that's more his teammates than just it being on him.

Durant lately seems focused on trying to be an all around player and not just score 30 points a game I suppose because maybe he sees LeBron getting the MVP's or whatever over him or because LeBron is seen as the better player because he does more than score so now he's trying to do it similar (maybe), Durant's certainly having a great year at 28 or 29, about 5 and 7 or 8 rebounds, if he is going to win the MVP any year it would be this year but LeBron is going at 25 points 59% 6 and 6, but I think they might go with Durant, both teams doing well but maybe more so voter fatigue.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #89
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

What happened to Damon Stoudemire's season avg. when he went to Portland? It dropped from 20.0 ppg to 12.0 ppg, was that all because of the JailBlazers? Too many scoring options? I swear he was such a killer back then, added more swag to their lineup.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:26 AM   #90
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Default Re: ☆ Lakers Open Court ☆

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What happened to Damon Stoudemire's season avg. when he went to Portland? It dropped from 20.0 ppg to 12.0 ppg, was that all because of the JailBlazers? Too many scoring options? I swear he was such a killer back then, added more swag to their lineup.

Haha probably one of the worst behaved teams and group of collective teammates in sports history would have been entertaining albeit to watch the chaos at times , I don't really have that much recollection of it well from the time because of how young I'd have been at the time but looking back I'd say a badly meshed group, terrible issues off the court, too many scoring options, the players they had it really could have been an amazing team...instead will be condemned to history as the worst behaved team arguably in sports history I think Pippen was one of the only ones that didn't commit a felony on that team just about lmao, a large part of it yeah I'd imagine off court stuff was the primary reason. To think the Dwightmare was considered the major drama of the last year or so in terms of Laker problems not much on the Jailblazers
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