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Old 10-15-2013, 10:11 AM   #211
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by plowking
People need to realize defenses are better today, and are better at stopping star players.

Less points are scored, fg% is down, and there are less 30ppg and 25ppg scorers today. There is a reason why, and its because star players, particular perimeter players are focused on heavily unlike in the 80's and 90's.
Coaches overcompensate to stop them due to it being harder to score in the post these days due to the rules to get the ball out of the big mans hands.

These are all just statistical facts, but whatever. Apparently somehow defenses are better, despite all the stats saying otherwise.
Fg% are down because they take more 3pt shots today. Coaches do the samething to stop star players today just like before. Star players just don't take has much shots before because teams want to be more balance with scoring. If prime Iverson was in the league he would still be jacking his 27 fga if his coaches ask him.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #212
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by juju151111
Fg% are down because they take more 3pt shots today. Coaches do the samething to stop star players today just like before. Star players just don't take has much shots before because teams want to be more balance with scoring. If prime Iverson was in the league he would still be jacking his 27 fga if his coaches ask him.

so all the teams just got together out of the blue and said "lets shoot more 3's and be more balanced" for no reason? And then the teams that made the finals were both balanced and shot tons of 3's.

the reason is the DEFENSE. I wish I could shake you and make you get it.

Last edited by ralph_i_el : 10-15-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:27 AM   #213
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Fg% are down because they take more 3pt shots today. Coaches do the samething to stop star players today just like before. Star players just don't take has much shots before because teams want to be more balance with scoring. If prime Iverson was in the league he would still be jacking his 27 fga if his coaches ask him.

They're shooting more 3 point shots for a reason. Because defenses are organized enough that this is what is given to them.

Teams want to be more balanced with scoring? No. Teams just want to win. The game doesn't allow for it as much. As posted before, star players are taking less shots, scoring less points, and it is easier to converge on them with floating zones being more regular.
Teams can say what they want about not using zones, but watching the playoffs, it was one of the Spurs most used weapons on defense, especially against the Heat. They basically didn't use anything but zone.

I mean were people even watching what the Spurs were doing to Lebron? At times all 5 players would converge into the paint. That is absolutely ridiculous, and over the top.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #214
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
so all the teams just got together out of the blue and said "lets shoot more 3's and be more balanced" for no reason? And then the teams that made the finals were both balanced and shot tons of 3's.

the reason is the DEFENSE. I wish I could shake you and make you get it.
What? 3pt shooting has been increasing steadily since the late 80s. They are just utilizing the new 3 or line that was indroduced. Mj was still winning chips in the late 90s even through 3 or shooting had increased way more since he first entered the league. The league just adopted a certain style and it's rare. You can win either way. Kobe still avged 30 ppg in his playoff run in 08 and 09. You can still win the same way has before. It just depends on your team. Also you didn't answer my other post.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:37 AM   #215
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by juju151111
Also you didn't answer my other post.

you couldn't pack the paint to the same degree and that's a fact. They changed the rules We've seen the transition over the past 10 years.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:38 AM   #216
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by plowking
They're shooting more 3 point shots for a reason. Because defenses are organized enough that this is what is given to them.

Teams want to be more balanced with scoring? No. Teams just want to win. The game doesn't allow for it as much. As posted before, star players are taking less shots, scoring less points, and it is easier to converge on them with floating zones being more regular.
Teams can say what they want about not using zones, but watching the playoffs, it was one of the Spurs most used weapons on defense, especially against the Heat. They basically didn't use anything but zone.

I mean were people even watching what the Spurs were doing to Lebron? At times all 5 players would converge into the paint. That is absolutely ridiculous, and over the top.
They didn't put all 5 playerrs in the paint. LJ man just backed off him since game 2 to mess with his head and he became a mental midget. You tried to claim they started doing it in game 5 or 6 in a earlier thread to make ur boy Lebrick look better. Anyways ask any top defense coaches of these eras and man to man is the way to go. If LJ lose Wade to a season ending injury tommorow he would be able to take 23-26 fga if he really wanted too. He just thinks about FG% now, but he could just go back to his early Cavs day mindset.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #217
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
They didn't put all 5 playerrs in the paint. LJ man just backed off him since game 2 to mess with his head and he became a mental midget. You tried to claim they started doing it in game 5 or 6 in a earlier thread to make ur boy Lebrick look better. Anyways ask any top defense coaches of these eras and man to man is the way to go. If LJ lose Wade to a season ending injury tommorow he would be able to take 23-26 fga if he really wanted too. He just thinks about FG% now, but he could just go back to his early Cavs day mindset.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncVxYAsSAko

Here is game 6... Look at every time he has the ball. 2 or 3 guys at the ready, stepping up, and trapping. And I remember watching a video, might have been one from coach Nick on Bballbreakdown, where he showed plays where 4 or 5 players converged on Lebron.
Kobe used to get the same shit, and so did Wade back in his Miami days.

Defenses are just better at stopping star players today, and better at forcing bad shots for the entire team. Its why you see a lower ppg peak for the best players today, lower shooting numbers, and a slower pace in general. Teams are forcing each other to slow down, and forcing one another into bad shots.

Its fact, and its supported by stats.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #218
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
you couldn't pack the paint to the same degree and that's a fact. They changed the rules We've seen the transition over the past 10 years.
Show me the difference. The Knicks packed the paint so much Mj had one shot made at the basket in 3 games into the series. One of the greatest drivers in history along with Pippen. Show me the difference or Gtfo
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:53 AM   #219
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
"Players today get bailed out by tons of free throws"
-they shot more free throws in the jordan era

That has more to do with the fact that teams went down to their big men way more often back then they do now and obviously due to the physical play of big men, they are more likely to shoot free throws. If you look at star perimeter players, today's clearly shoot more free throws then in Jordan's era, especially in relation to how many FGAs they take.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:55 AM   #220
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
They're shooting more 3 point shots for a reason. Because defenses are organized enough that this is what is given to them.

Teams want to be more balanced with scoring? No. Teams just want to win. The game doesn't allow for it as much. As posted before, star players are taking less shots, scoring less points, and it is easier to converge on them with floating zones being more regular.
Teams can say what they want about not using zones, but watching the playoffs, it was one of the Spurs most used weapons on defense, especially against the Heat. They basically didn't use anything but zone.

I mean were people even watching what the Spurs were doing to Lebron? At times all 5 players would converge into the paint. That is absolutely ridiculous, and over the top.

I don't think Jordan would average 45 ppg today, not 40 ppg either. But if he was played the way the Spurs played Lebron, i.e. open jumpshots throughout the game, then there's a decent chance he would.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:59 AM   #221
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Show me the difference. The Knicks packed the paint so much Mj had one shot made at the basket in 3 games into the series. One of the greatest drivers in history along with Pippen. Show me the difference or Gtfo

that video you posted is bullshit

I don't have time to refute half of a 10 minute video. Some of those were illegal D's that weren't called. Some of those were just great defensive efforts by the knicks. Some of it was because the bulls had bad spacing.

Check out 1:56. The knicks are "packing the paint" because the bulls have only 1 player out of the paint. They weren't spacing the floor at all. Most of these plays have multiple bulls players in the paint when MJ drives.


Yeah, the knicks were fouling him hard as shit. There'd probably be suspensions today.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:00 AM   #222
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

So many dumb posts in this thread. Zones suck. They're gimmicky. By the way, zones did exist when Mike played. Find the video on YT where Pat Riley talks about the 1-2-1 zone being played in the 80's and 90's and how WEAK zone is.

Do your homework.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:03 AM   #223
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
So many dumb posts in this thread. Zones suck. They're gimmicky. By the way, zones did exist when Mike played. Find the video on YT where Pat Riley talks about the 1-2-1 zone being played in the 80's and 90's and how WEAK zone is.

Do your homework.

nobody is saying that teams are out there playing full zones.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #224
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Pointguard

As for JJ's statement...

He also said Jordan would be even BETTER today than in his era.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #225
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by guy
I don't think Jordan would average 45 ppg today, not 40 ppg either. But if he was played the way the Spurs played Lebron, i.e. open jumpshots throughout the game, then there's a decent chance he would.

Nah. You need to make shots first to get into rhythm. We can sit here all day and pretend Jordan nailed every mid range jump shot ever, but being given a different look can mess with a players head, even the all time greats. Giving them too much room works at times.
Anyway, not here to argue that. James shot terribly for the majority of that series. No denying it.
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