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Old 10-15-2013, 02:00 AM   #196
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
He would get handchecked on his drives.
Handchecking was a primarily a post defensive move. I just don't recall guys hand checking Kiki, Chris Mullen and Alex English. It wasn't something you just do wrecklessly and get away with it. If a player handchecked a guy pulling up for a jumpshot it was called a foul. Durant is primarily a pull up jump shooter. Is he not?
Quote:
Durant shot can be off but still get off from fts.That ripped through move and those tic tact fouls.
I'll give you that but for a shooter, he's rarely off. He rarely scores less than 25 points in a playoff game. And overall he had only one season where his FTs were really high.
Quote:
Kobe had his 40 or streak in 03 he was explosive. Durant would score in any era through he is that great. Durant never scored 35 ppg on 60%ts being the only featured man on your team. You can't compare Mj to Durant has scorers. Mj was putting up 50+ games at age 39 with no knees and moved like a snail. Durant can barly crack 50 more than twice. I want to see Durant this season through he about to enter his prime basically and his body looks bigger this year. We will see in 2 years. Also look at playoffs stats too. Has KD ever been that explosive in the playoffs.
Durant barely cracked 20 FGA per game once (20.3) and he rarely goes over 30 shots per game. I'm sure Kobe took more 29 or more FGA in '03 or '06 than Durant has taken in his life. Its definitely not a question of whether or not Durant can score 50 a couple of times, but its not likely if his coach has him on a diet. In the playoffs last year five of the eleven games he scored 35 or more points (and thirteen games like that over three years). That's more than anybody in the playoffs and he only played two rounds. He and Curry are the only ones to crack 40.

Over the last three years in the playoffs he has double the amount of games over 40 points than the next player, 4 times. So he's the most explosive scorer in the playoffs the last three years - Rose probably would have given him comp.

Last edited by Pointguard : 10-15-2013 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:17 AM   #197
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
Durant would be a top 3 scorer in any era, but we need to take his TS% with a grain of salt. Nobody in the history of the league has gotten more BS calls than him. Nobody. All Durant has to do to get a call is put the ball on the floor, flail his arms around(or look awkward) and the refs will blow the whistle. Contact is completely unnecessary. If he got officiated like any other star in the league, his TS% would drop 3-5 points, at least.

bird,jordan,jabbar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> durant 100 times
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:18 AM   #198
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by G-train
You are a dolt, the current schemes ran by elite defences have only recently evolved from the 2001 rule change.

so soft defence ................nowaday
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:53 AM   #199
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
He would get handchecked on his drives. Durant shot can be off but still get off from fts.That ripped through move and those tic tact fouls. Kobe had his 40 or streak in 03 he was explosive. Durant would score in any era through he is that great. Durant never scored 35 ppg on 60%ts being the only featured man on your team. You can't compare Mj to Durant has scorers. Mj was putting up 50+ games at age 39 with no knees and moved like a snail. Durant can barly crack 50 more than twice. I want to see Durant this season through he about to enter his prime basically and his body looks bigger this year. We will see in 2 years. Also look at playoffs stats too. Has KD ever been that explosive in the playoffs.
Durant would get even more FTAs in the late 80s-early 90s than today. 90s stans here always rave about the physicality of that era, but they forget to add that the whistle was blown for every single contact and then some more.

There is a reason it was the era with the most FTAs in the history.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:19 AM   #200
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

"Players today get bailed out by tons of free throws"
-they shot more free throws in the jordan era

"Defenses are soft today"
-No evidence to this. Just because you can't blow a dude up with an elbow in the paint and get away with just free throws doesn't mean defenses are bad
-Also, when they got rid of handchecking they also got rid of illegal defense. Look up the definition of illegal D and tell me getting rid of that would have helped jordan. if you believe that, you weren't watching the celtics win in '08 with the thibideu D that is all the rage now.


Also jordan put up most of his 30+ ppg seasons when the league was playing at a much faster pace than they do today and scoring was much higher. What makes you think jordan would be able to hoist 30 attempts a game when Melo only took 22 this year and led the league. Only 9 players averaged 20+ ppg last year when the average year has more than 20 players scoring 20 ppg. So i guess in jordan stans minds not only are D's worse today, but offensive players today are EVEN WORSE THAN THAT. That's froggin bullshorts

Last edited by ralph_i_el : 10-15-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:47 AM   #201
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-train
You are a dolt, the current schemes ran by elite defences have only recently evolved from the 2001 rule change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:16 AM   #202
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
Handchecking was a primarily a post defensive move. I just don't recall guys hand checking Kiki, Chris Mullen and Alex English. It wasn't something you just do wrecklessly and get away with it. If a player handchecked a guy pulling up for a jumpshot it was called a foul. Durant is primarily a pull up jump shooter. Is he not?

I'll give you that but for a shooter, he's rarely off. He rarely scores less than 25 points in a playoff game. And overall he had only one season where his FTs were really high.

Durant barely cracked 20 FGA per game once (20.3) and he rarely goes over 30 shots per game. I'm sure Kobe took more 29 or more FGA in '03 or '06 than Durant has taken in his life. Its definitely not a question of whether or not Durant can score 50 a couple of times, but its not likely if his coach has him on a diet. In the playoffs last year five of the eleven games he scored 35 or more points (and thirteen games like that over three years). That's more than anybody in the playoffs and he only played two rounds. He and Curry are the only ones to crack 40.

Over the last three years in the playoffs he has double the amount of games over 40 points than the next player, 4 times. So he's the most explosive scorer in the playoffs the last three years - Rose probably would have given him comp.
He drives to the basket a lot too which is why he gets his fts. Yes you could just because you find highlights of them going off doesn't mean much. They allowed way more contact off the ball movement when the player tries to get into his spot.

His playoff scoring isnt on Mj level through which is my point. I like Durant and think he can actually equal Mj in scoring because he that good, but Durant still needs to prove he can be rediculous scoring explosion. We will see with those few months without Westbrook.

The same reason your praising him about how little fga he has you should be praising MJ. With the amount of shots MJ took and having that high of a ts%. Mj taking less shots and looking at for his FG% would of bump his ts% up.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #203
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
"Players today get bailed out by tons of free throws"
-they shot more free throws in the jordan era

"Defenses are soft today"
-No evidence to this. Just because you can't blow a dude up with an elbow in the paint and get away with just free throws doesn't mean defenses are bad
-Also, when they got rid of handchecking they also got rid of illegal defense. Look up the definition of illegal D and tell me getting rid of that would have helped jordan. if you believe that, you weren't watching the celtics win in '08 with the thibideu D that is all the rage now.


Also jordan put up most of his 30+ ppg seasons when the league was playing at a much faster pace than they do today and scoring was much higher. What makes you think jordan would be able to hoist 30 attempts a game when Melo only took 22 this year and led the league. Only 9 players averaged 20+ ppg last year when the average year has more than 20 players scoring 20 ppg. So i guess in jordan stans minds not only are D's worse today, but offensive players today are EVEN WORSE THAN THAT. That's froggin bullshorts
This makes zero sense. Why wouldn't Mj be able to launch around 27-8 shots a game. Kobe did it in 07. The only reason he stopped was a better team and ball movement. The bulls were one of the slowest pace teams of that era.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #204
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
This makes zero sense. Why wouldn't Mj be able to launch around 27-8 shots a game. Kobe did it in 07. The only reason he stopped was a better team and ball movement. The bulls were one of the slowest pace teams of that era.

yeah but kobe took 27 shots a game and scored 35 ppg...not 45.
In jordan's 2 best scoring years his team played at around a 96 pace which was the SLOWEST in the league. The year Kobe scored 35 ppg the lakers were the 15th fastest paced team in the league....AT A PACE OF 91. That's why stats from the Jordan era are always inflated.


Prime Jordan wouldn't put up 40 ppg on a playoff team today. FACT
He'd be able to do it with which a shameless display of chucking on a losing team possibly. 45 ppg is basically a statistical impossibility

Last edited by ralph_i_el : 10-15-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:31 AM   #205
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
yeah but kobe took 27 shots a game and scored 35 ppg...not 45.
In jordan's 2 best scoring years his team played at around a 96 pace which was the slowest in the league. The year Kobe scored 35 ppg the lakers were the 15th fastest paced team in the league....AT A PACE OF 91.


Prime Jordan wouldn't put up 40 ppg on a playoff team today. FACT
Yes he would. He would of dominanted those suns team. What's your point? 96 pace isn't some crazy number and Mj was more efficient and way better then Kobe. You just said Mj wouldn't be able to launch 27-30 shots today when playerrs like Iverson,tmac, and Kobe have. Mj has the stamina and is use to doing it. Kobe playoff career can't comepare to Mj in terms of efficiency.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:40 AM   #206
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Yes he would. He would of dominanted those suns team. What's your point? 96 pace isn't some crazy number and Mj was more efficient and way better then Kobe. You just said Mj wouldn't be able to launch 27-30 shots today when playerrs like Iverson,tmac, and Kobe have. Mj has the stamina and is use to doing it. Kobe playoff career can't comepare to Mj in terms of efficiency.

Tmac's highest scoring year was 32 points on 24 shots
Kobe was 35 on 27
AI was 31 ppg on 28 shots
Jordan was 37 on 28 shots


If you think D is still played like it was when they were taking that many shots, it would be useless to argue with you because you haven't watched basketball in years. There's a reason why the leader in ppg took only 22 shots a game this year. Jordan would have to shoot an obscene % and lead the league in usage by a HUGE amount to score 40 ppg much less 45.

here's a list of every player to take 25 shots or more per game since 2008:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

DON'T EVEN BOTHER CLICKING THE LINK NO ONE IS ON IT YOU DOLT


Last edited by ralph_i_el : 10-15-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:51 AM   #207
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
Tmac's highest scoring year was 32 points on 24 shots
Kobe was 35 on 27
AI was 31 ppg on 28 shots
Jordan was 37 on 28 shots


If you think D is still played like it was when they were taking that many shots, it would be useless to argue with you because you haven't watched basketball in years. There's a reason why the leader in ppg took only 22 shots a game this year. Jordan would have to shoot an obscene % and lead the league in usage by a HUGE amount to score 40 ppg much less 45.

here's a list of every player to take 25 shots or more per game since 2008:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

DON'T EVEN BOTHER CLICKING THE LINK NO ONE IS ON IT YOU DOLT
What's your point? Smh You said he couldn't which mean it's not possible. It is possible in a certain system that allows him to take that amount of shots. Mj wasn't some injury prone softy. Mj played 40+ mpg and 40 mpg in the playoffs. Right now teams are more balance and they changed their systems. They don't want one player taking that much shots, but they could if they want too. Look at Kobe before he got injured last year year. His coach told him to eff it and shoot has much has he wants. He went back to his young Kobe dats with 40 mpg shooting crazy. The only difference was he was 34 and his body not use to doing that for years. I'm really confused here. So you think the 92 or 96 bulls couldn't play today? Mj shot less and still avg 30 ppg

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:59 AM   #208
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
What's your point? Smh You said he couldn't which mean it's not possible. It is possible in a certain system that allows him to take that amount of shots. Mj wasn't some injury prone softy. Mj played 40+ mpg and 40 mpg in the playoffs. Right now teams are more balance and they changed their systems. They don't want one player taking that much shots, but they could if they want too. Look at Kobe before he got injured last year year. His coach told him to eff it and shoot has much has he wants. He went back to his young Kobe dats with 40 mpg shooting crazy. The only difference was he was 34 and his body not use to doing that for years. I'm really confused here. So you think the 92 or 96 bulls couldn't play today?

If you took the 92 bulls and dropped them directly into todays game they would not be contenders. They'd be a playoff team, but teams would pack the paint on them so easily. It's just a different era. You build a team to compete in their era, and we should only judge teams based on how they played against teams in there own era.

They would need 3 point shooters to compete today. If they retooled with some shooters to space the floor they could be the best team. MJ would be the best player in the league either way. He'd probably have 21-24 FGA with 8-10 FT's. Maybe he'd top out at 35 ppg. Teams don't want one player taking to many shots because:

1. It's easier to zone and double team today. teams do it more and rotate more

2. Teams are trying to take more 3 point shots. This isn't arguable. The record for 3 point attempts will probably be broken again next year.
-3 pointers are worth more
-They're the best way to beat teams when they pack the pain



also on the "possible/impossible" comment. I guess I'm wrong and it's also possible that we're going to elect Nick Nolte as our next POTUS

Last edited by ralph_i_el : 10-15-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:04 AM   #209
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

People need to realize defenses are better today, and are better at stopping star players.

Less points are scored, fg% is down, and there are less 30ppg and 25ppg scorers today. There is a reason why, and its because star players, particular perimeter players are focused on heavily unlike in the 80's and 90's.
Coaches overcompensate to stop them due to it being harder to score in the post these days due to the rules to get the ball out of the big mans hands.

These are all just statistical facts, but whatever. Apparently somehow defenses are better, despite all the stats saying otherwise.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:07 AM   #210
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
If you took the 92 bulls and dropped them directly into todays game they would not be contenders. They'd be a playoff team, but teams would pack the paint on them so easily.

They would need 3 point shooters to compete today. If they retooled with some shooters to space the floor they could be the best team. MJ would be the best player in the league either way. He'd probably have 21-24 FGA with 8-10 FT's. Maybe he'd top out at 35 ppg. Teams don't want one player taking to many shots because:

1. It's easier to zone and double team today. teams do it more and rotate more

2. Teams are trying to take more 3 point shots. This isn't arguable. The record for 3 point attempts will probably be broken again next year.
-3 pointers are worth more
-They're the best way to beat teams when they pack the pain
Yep nobody ever packed the paint against the Bulls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ lol be serious kid. 92 Mj only took like 22 FGA. No all you need is good shooters abd they had great midrange shooters and 3 or shooters if needed in paxton/armstrong. Teams rarly play zone today. Ask Larry brown,ribs,pat riley, dirk. They play man to man defense with zone principles depending on their opponents, but mostly they want to play great man defense.
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