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Old 10-14-2013, 10:18 PM   #166
Straight_Ballin
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by KOBE143
I agree.. Today's league is water down..

Prime Kobe would avg 50ppg today..

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:27 PM   #167
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Durant has ONE 50 point game and only FOUR 40 point games in the playoffs, yet he would be the 'GOAT' scorer had he played 15 years ago? Don't make me laugh.
Why would you laugh? He did all of this when he was only 24??? Are you seriously not projecting at all?

You are looking at it the wrong way. I think he has more scoring titles than anybody at his age. And could have easily won 1 more. I'm pretty sure nobody else had 4 40point playoff games the last four years??? Perimeter defense just wasn't good back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHg736-JiWQ

Around the six minute mark is Mullins turn.

Look at the ratio of uncontested jump shots. Its mind boggling and Jordan and Pippen are the two best perimeter players in the game and this was when they were really hungry for the title.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:01 PM   #168
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by SamuraiSWISH
Durant would easily be a worse scorer 10 years ago let alone in the more physical 90s. Dude struggles with the physicality of old Ron Artest, his small feminine shoulders, string bean arms and shyness for physicality would frustrate the hell out of him. No touch swing through triple threat moves to get to the line to majorly pad those ppg numbers.

Young one, you ever heard of George Gervin??? Durant has had great games against Artest and has a stellar average against him overall. And he is consistently stellar against Lebron. Both of whom would be the elite defenders at any time in history and who are among the biggest athletes ever at that position ever. In fact NBA history doesn't provide two guys over 250 pounds who have better defensive feet than those two. And no defenders similar during Jordan's time.

10 years ago??? When Dirk was torching the league??? Why would it be harder then?
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:07 PM   #169
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by DuMa
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,2997421.story



Its no mountain lion or 20,000 women but let us have our moment



Jordan would not average 45. 35 maybe.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:21 PM   #170
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
Why would you laugh? He did all of this when he was only 24??? Are you seriously not projecting at all?

You are looking at it the wrong way. I think he has more scoring titles than anybody at his age. And could have easily won 1 more. I'm pretty sure nobody else had 4 40point playoff games the last four years??? Perimeter defense just wasn't good back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHg736-JiWQ

Around the six minute mark is Mullins turn.

Dumb post. The 90s were not weak simply because you call them weak.

As for the clip? Nothing I don't see Dirk doing. And no, perimeter scoring was not "easier". The lax rules of today see a 35 year old Kobe average 28+ a night.

As Joe Johnson recently said, it is much easier for perimeter players today due to the handchecking ban.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:31 PM   #171
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by 305Baller


Jordan would not average 45. 35 maybe.

Exactly.

Its like people don't understand basic human nature. The old timers on here contradict themselves.
If its a more perimeter oriented game, which makes it more likely to get the ball in the wings hands, then surely an NBA defensive coordinator who spends his whole life doing this will then compensate and focus more on the perimeter then inside? More emphasis will be put on preventing the wings.


Defenses today as a whole are just better. They are more reactive, quicker, force more jumpshots and are more resilient to stopping a single superstar.

I mean look at when Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc were playing. FG% was higher by a good 3-4% on average compared to now. Pace was higher, more points were scored. The ball was pushed more, the defenses didn't get set as often, so you had a more open and free flowing game.
That's just basic logic, but I'm sure people will choose to ignore it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:33 PM   #172
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by plowking
Exactly.

Its like people don't understand basic human nature. The old timers on here contradict themselves.
If its a more perimeter oriented game, which makes it more likely to get the ball in the wings hands, then surely an NBA defensive coordinator who spends his whole life doing this will then compensate and focus more on the perimeter then inside? More emphasis will be put on preventing the wings.


Defenses today as a whole are just better. They are more reactive, quicker, force more jumpshots and are more resilient to stopping a single superstar.

I mean look at when Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc were playing. FG% was higher by a good 3-4% on average compared to now. Pace was higher, more points were scored. The ball was pushed more, the defenses didn't get set as often, so you had a more open and free flowing game.
That's just basic logic, but I'm sure people will choose to ignore it.
Inb4: "but those players were better, so they shot higher FG%!!!" answer
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:44 PM   #173
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Inb4: "but those players were better, so they shot higher FG%!!!" answer

That's usually the excuse.
"Players are dumber today and take worse shots"

Not really... They've been playing basketball their whole life, they're playing in an era of basketball with the most time to study offenses and defenses since it is the current one, they have great coaches getting them the shots they want due to their strengths, etc.

But, whatever...
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:47 PM   #174
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Trollsmasher
Inb4: "but those players were better, so they shot higher FG%!!!" answer

Specifically speaking, Jordan, Bird, and Magic were all great post players too.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:49 PM   #175
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Straight_Ballin


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Old 10-15-2013, 12:06 AM   #176
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Specifically speaking, Jordan, Bird, and Magic were all great post players too.

The percentage of points MJ scored from the post comparatively to the rest of the floor would be tiny.
Magic slightly more, and Bird probably with the largest percentage, but even then...
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:22 AM   #177
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by tpols
Kevin Durant isnt a crazy explosive scorer.. hes super consistent though. I can see you dogging him as an overall player compared to Mike.. but just talking scoring? KD's best scoring seasons in only 6 first years..

28ppg on 65TS
28ppg on 61TS
30ppg on 61TS

Jordan in his early years scored on 3ish ppg more volume but his overall efficiency was 59, 53, 56, 60, 61... and for his whole career Jordan only shot over 60TS four times in 15+ seasons.

Durant has already done it 3 out of 6 years... And Durant already has a peak TS four points higher than MJ's peak efficiency season.


MJ>durant for volume but is going to get roasted in overall efficiency by the end of this comparison. MJ stans gonna be running from TS like its the plague. even though it determines overall points per possession and is the real big picture of efficiency.

3 more ppg? No, MJ was averaging 5-7 more ppg on 60-61% TS. And if you just compare their best scoring seasons, it's 30 ppg/60% TS for KD versus 35 ppg/60+% TS for MJ. Not really close. 5-7 ppg is a huge gap, and I shudder to think what Jordan would have shot from the field and in terms of TS% if he only averaged 28 ppg in his scoring prime.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:29 AM   #178
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Dumb post. The 90s were not weak simply because you call them weak.
Did I ever say the 90's were weak??? I never said that? So what is dumb? Wow, did you OD on redbull? The perimeter defense isn't what it is today and wasn't that good but that's one aspect of the game.

Quote:
As for the clip? Nothing I don't see Dirk doing. And no, perimeter scoring was not "easier". The lax rules of today see a 35 year old Kobe average 28+ a night.

As Joe Johnson recently said, it is much easier for perimeter players today due to the handchecking ban.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBPlmNY5WSY
Kiki Vandeweigh another player that gets his points in the same area that Durant does goes for 50 with about 12 uncontested shots and a half of dozen set shots in a 30ppg season. A set shot means you have too much time on your hands. Believe me I got more from where that came from. Dirk is Kiki on steriods and Durant is Dirk on steroids.

As for JJ's statement hand checking slows you down from getting to the rim. Not even you will say that players are getting to the rim more often now. Very few players get from the top of the key to rim in a half court set today. Kyrie and Rose are the only two that come to mind that can do it frequently against good defenses.

Hand checking didn't affect Gervin at all because he had great pull up ability like Durant does. Hand checking a jump shooter???
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:37 AM   #179
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
Did I ever say the 90's were weak??? I never said that? So what is dumb? Wow, did you OD on redbull? The perimeter defense isn't what it is today and wasn't that good but that's one aspect of the game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBPlmNY5WSY
Kiki Vandeweigh another player that gets his points in the same area that Durant does goes for 50 with about 12 uncontested shots and a half of dozen set shots in a 30ppg season. A set shot means you have too much time on your hands. Believe me I got more from where that came from. Dirk is Kiki on steriods and Durant is Dirk on steroids.

As for JJ's statement hand checking slows you down from getting to the rim. Not even you will say that players are getting to the rim more often now. Very few players get from the top of the key to rim in a half court set today. Kyrie and Rose are the only two that come to mind that can do it frequently against good defenses.

Hand checking didn't affect Gervin at all because he had great pull up ability like Durant does. Hand checking a jump shooter???
Durant struggles when people get physical with him and push him off his spot. Durant isn't even a explosive scorer. Kobe and MJ are the only two perimeter player who are rediculous explosive scorer and could shoot 50 or better for that streak. Durant would score in any era through but his free throws(which is one of the reason for his high ts%) would go down. Also Durant true to protect his FG%
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:45 AM   #180
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Default Re: Horace Grant: "Michael would average 45 PPG today"

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Originally Posted by deja vu
NBA.com: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

SJ: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.

NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...son/index.html

Unfortunately for you this article was written in 2009, and the pack the paint zone defences have only evolved in the last 2 seasons or so.
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