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Old 09-30-2013, 04:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Mingo went from being one of the best 1st rounders to one of the worst with his display yesterday, according to PFF.

He had a -3.7 grade, bringing his season total to -3.3
what the fuvk? Mingo was all over the field making plays..
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:48 PM   #17
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Mingo went from being one of the best 1st rounders to one of the worst with his display yesterday, according to PFF.

He had a -3.7 grade, bringing his season total to -3.3
If that's the case, then I officially will never pay attention to these statistics again. Mingo was a major reason the Browns' defense dominated. He was making plays all over the field. Anyone who watched the game can attest to that.

The Bengals had zero success running the ball anywhere on the Browns' defense and he was either in Dalton's lap on pass attempts, batting balls down at the line or chasing down guys from behind.

I'd love to hear the rationale for this being a poor outing by Mingo. Both Rich Gannon and Marv Albert were praising him throughout the game.

Cleveland Browns Iso: LB Barkevious Mingo makes impression in first start

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 09-30-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

I'm going to examine Mingos game later tonight and see what I come up with. It fascinates me that they can have him with a -3.7 grade which is pretty bad and others have him as a solid/good game.

I'll post my thoughts when I'm done.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I'm going to examine Mingos game later tonight and see what I come up with. It fascinates me that they can have him with a -3.7 grade which is pretty bad and others have him as a solid/good game.

I'll post my thoughts when I'm done.
It's bizarre. He had at least two deflected balls at the LOS which ended up not counting in the stat book. Either of them could have been picked off, but just by the luck of the football, one deflected high in the air and was caught downfield by Eiffert and the other was negated because of a (bogus) personal foul call.

Beyond that, he is the first player in Browns' history to record a sack in each of his first three games, he had several huge tackles for losses and the biggest fear, his slight frame, resulted in no success in the running game for Cincinnati.

Again, that's a bizarre statistic after what I saw. I'm assuming a score like that would indicate an awful performance... not just bad, but horrendous. It makes no sense.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Here's a better write-up of Mingo's best highlights yesterday.

Quote:
In first NFL start, Barkevious Mingo becomes first player in Browns history to record sack in each of his first three games

By Jason Lloyd
Beacon Journal sports writer



CLEVELAND: The ball squirted away from Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton on a botched snap and began tumbling backward. Barkevious Mingo saw it flopping around and sprinted after it.

He barely missed the fumble recovery because Bengals running back Giovani Bernard fell on it a split-second sooner, but Mingo flashed the type of closing speed typically reserved for cornerbacks.

In his first NFL start, Mingo shined again for the Browns with four tackles, a sack and two tackles for loss. He became the first Browns player in franchise history to record a sack in each of his first three NFL games and the first to do it in the league since the Oakland Raiders’ Tommy Kelly in 2004, according to Elias Sports Bureau.

But it was his blazing speed on the near fumble recovery that grabbed everyone’s attention in the Browns’ locker room.

“He’s probably one of the fastest guys on the team,” Phil Taylor said, knowing full well Mingo is an outside linebacker/defensive end and that most of the fast guys play on the outside. “He’s a quick guy, he’s young and he’s learning how to be a great player in this league.”

Added Joe Haden: “I legitimately think he might be a 4.4 [in the 40-yard dash].”

Jabaal Sheard’s sprained knee forced Mingo into the starting lineup. Now the Browns might have a hard time getting him out.

He burst through the line to corral Dalton for his sack late in the first quarter, then tipped a third-down pass deep in Browns territory in the second quarter that Tyler Eifert still managed to catch, although the Browns’ defense dragged him down short of the first down. They got off the field on the next play with an impressive fourth-down stop, preserving the 7-3 lead.

He was able to catch Dalton’s foot on a third-down run in the third quarter, forcing the Bengals to settle for a field goal and another tipped pass at the line was negated by a personal foul call on Buster Skrine.

“The guys has a motor, he has exceptional speed and he has a knack for getting after the passer and batted balls,” D’Qwell Jackson said. “You saw a little bit of that today.”

The Browns drafted Mingo sixth overall primarily because of his blazing speed and ability to rush the passer. He missed the first game while recovering from a bruised lung suffered in the preseason but is fully healthy now. All those questions about not being heavy enough to play in the NFL have dissipated, too, under his flurry of sacks.

Defensive players often talk about trying to get at least one sack a game. Thus far, Mingo is 3 for 3 and on pace for 15.

“I hope he has 50 sacks this season,” Paul Kruger said. “The guy is just an unbelievable athlete. He does everything right. He’s just one of those special guys. I’m really grateful to have him on our team.”

Mingo gave a dismissive laugh when he learned Taylor thought he might be one of the fastest players on the team.

“I don’t know. We have Travis Benjamin, Joe Haden, C.O. [Chris Owens], those guys are blazers,” Mingo said. “I’m not going to turn down a compliment, but I know that we have some blazers on this team.”

Now Mingo is one of them.

He spent Sunday banging against Bengals offensive tackle Andrew Whitworth, who served as a mentor to Mingo in earlier years. The two attended the same high school and Mingo followed Whitworth to LSU. They chatted briefly after the game, which marked the first of many times they’ll now face each other as divisional opponents.

“He said he was proud of me, good luck and that I played a good game,” Mingo said. “Coming from him, that was big.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/in...games-1.432787
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

most of PFF's crazy grades and unique stats don't even come close to passing the eye ball test

have you guys seen their top-5 and bottom-5 at each position yet?

through week-3:

QB

Best
1. Peyton Manning
2. Philip Rivers
3. Matt Ryan
4. Jay Cutler
5t. Jake Locker
5t. Matthew Stafford

Worst
1. EJ Manuel (1 is the worst, 2 is the 2nd worst etc)
2. Colin Kaepernick
3. Robert Griffin III
4. Blaine Gabbert
5. Christian Ponder


RB

Best
1. LeSean McCoy
2. DeMarco Murray
3. Darren Sproles
4. Shane Vereen
5. Giovani Bernard

Worst
1. Lamar Miller
2. CJ Spiller
3. Darren McFadden
4t. Doug Martin
4t. Chris Ogbonnaya


FB

Best
1t. Collin Mooney
1t. Anthony Sherman
3. Le'Ron McClain
4. Jed Collins
5. Tommy Bohanon

Worst
1. Greg Jones
2t. Darrel Young
2t. Derrick Coleman
4. Erik Lorig
5. Tony Fiammetta


WR

Best
1t. Antonio Brown
1t. Jordy Nelson
3t. DeSean Jackson
3t. Julio Jones
5. Nate Washington

Worst
1. Keny Britt
2. Greg Little
3. Dexter McCluster
4. Kenbrell Thompkins
5. Riley Cooper


TE

Best
1. Jordan Cameron
2. Julius Thomas
3. Antonio Gates
4. Ben Hartstock
5. Jimmy Graham

Worst
1. Jeff Cumberland
2. Jared Cook
3t. Martellus Bennett
3t. Jermaine Gresham
5. Jim Dray


OT

Best
1t. Doug Free
1t. Cordy Glenn
3. Tony Pashos
4. Zach Strief
5. Sebastian Vollmer

Worst
1. Sam Baker
2. Lamar Holmes
3. Bryant McKinnie
4. Eric Fisher
5. Michael Oher


OG

Best
1. Carl Nicks… jk! Evan Mathis
2. Korey Lichtensteiger
3. Logan Mankins
4. Garrett Reynolds
5. Louis Vasquez

Worst
1. Colin Brown
2. Lucas Nix
3. Oniel Cousins
4. Will Rackley
5. Chris Scott


C

Best
1. Chris Myers
2. Jason Kelce
3. Manuel Ramirez
4t. Ryan Kalil
4t. Rodney Hudson

Worst
1. Gino Gradkowski
2. Ryan Wendell
3. Robert Turner
4. Max Unger
5. Peter Konz


4-3 DE

Best
1. Robert Quinn
2. Michael Johnson
3. DeMarcus Ware
4. Brian Robison
5t. Willie Young
5t. Lamarr Houston

Worst
1. Daniel Te’o-Nesheim
2. Oliver Vernon
3. Tyson Alualu
4. Adrian Clayborn
5t. Shea McClellin
5t. Jason Jones


3-4 DE

Best
1. JJ Watt
2. Cameron Jordan
3. Tyson Jackson
4. Mike Devito
5t. Kyle Williams
5t. John Hughes

Worst
1. Kendall Reyes
2. Corey Liuget
3. Frostee Rucker
4. Johnny Jolly
5. Alex Carrington


DT/NT

Best
1. Ndamukong Suh
2. Jurrell Casey
3. Jason Hatcher
4. Damon Harrison
5. Gerald McCoy

Worst
1. Henry Melton
2t. Pat Sims
2t. Roy Miller
4t. Domato Peko
4t. Marcell Dareus


4-3 OLB

Best
1. James Anderson
2t. Malcom Smith
2t. Lavonte David
4. DeAndre Levy
5. Danny Trevathan

Worst
1. Jerod Mayo
2t. Zach Brown
2t. Phllip Wheeler
4t. Jacquian Williams
4t. Jon Beason


3-4 OLB

Best
1. Justin Houston
2. Jabaal Sheard
3. Elvis Dumervil
4. Trent Cole
5. Terrell Suggs

Worst
1. Brooks Reed
2. Erik Walden
3. John Abraham
4. Mike Neal
5. Nick Perry


MLB/ILB

Best
1. David Harris
2. Derrick Johnson
3. Brad Jones
4. Mason Foster
5t. Wesley Woodyard
5t. D’Qwell Jackson

Worst
1. Mychal Kendricks
2. London Fletcher
3. Kelvin Sheppard
4. Moise Fokou
5. James Laurinaitis


CB

Best
1. Leon Hall
2. Brent Grimes
3. Darrelle Revis
4. Alterraun Verner
5. Brandon Carr

Worst
1. Cortland Finnegan
2. Justin Rogers
3. Charles Tillman
4. Darius Slay
5t. DJ Hayden
5t. Corey Sensabaugh


S

Best
1. Barry Church
2. Troy Polamalu
3. James Ihedigbo
4. Devin McCourty
5. TJ Ward

Worst
1. Bacarri Rambo
2. John Cyprien
3. Jerron McMillian
4. Jamarca Samford
5. Jim Leonhard


K

Best
1. Matt Prater
2. Caleb Sturgis
3. Graham Gano
4. Stephen Gostkowski
5. Dan Bailey


P

Best
1. Shane Lechler
2. Sam Koch
3. Brad Nortma
4. Sam Martin
5. Thomas Morstead


according to this Dallas is loaded
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

I don't even know how to respond to some of those rankings.

I love John Hughes, but the 5th best 3-4 DE in the league? That's laughable. He doesn't even play that much. He's a situational guy.

It's weird that the 5th best DE in the NFL wouldn't even be a starter, isn't it? Maybe, at that point, it's time to re-evaluate your scoring method.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Worst:

4t. Doug Martin
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

This is their write up.

Barkevious Mingo (-3.7) struggled in his first start as a pro. He generated a single sack as a pass rusher on 47 attempts, and he failed to beat a block on that play as he simply noticed Dalton beginning to scramble out of the pocket and tackled him a yard behind the line of scrimmage.

Mingo did show the capacity to get his hands up and deflect passes (Q2, 5.26 and Q3, 4.35), but even that seemed not always to work out, as the first batted pass still found its way into the hands of the receiver.

His run defense was also poor (-1.7), as he made just the solitary defensive stop and missed a tackle. Just as with his sack, Mingo’s tackle for a loss came as he cleaned up an already destroyed run early in the fourth quarter (13.08).

One of the biggest issues was his failure to remain disciplined and keep outside contain on runs going away from him. Mingo often went flying down the line of scrimmage only to find the runner cutting back to where he should have been.

Although he had a tough matchup against Andrew Whitworth (+4.5), Browns fans will surely expect more from their first-round pick.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

I find that to be a very odd write-up. I have several questions/comments.

First, where do these point valuations come from?

Bolded:
Quote:
Barkevious Mingo (-3.7) struggled in his first start as a pro.

Quote:
His run defense was also poor (-1.7), as he made just the solitary defensive stop and missed a tackle.

Are those actually calculated using a point system based on the plays, or are they just arbitrary ratings that these guys come up with based on what they see?


Secondly, I find their dismissal of his sack somewhat humerus.

Quote:
Barkevious Mingo (-3.7) struggled in his first start as a pro. He generated a single sack as a pass rusher on 47 attempts, and he failed to beat a block on that play as he simply noticed Dalton beginning to scramble out of the pocket and tackled him a yard behind the line of scrimmage.

What actually happened was the pocket was beginning to collapse (and that included Mingo), so Dalton was forced to scramble up into the pocket. Mingo alertly disengaged and used his speed to run down Dalton pretty much immediately when he made his move. Is that not how a lot of sacks happen? I see them all them time. Never have I heard such an attempt to dismiss what was actually a very nice play.

Also, they make it a point to say "he generated a single sack on 47 attempts." I take it that must be below average for 47 pass-rush attempts? It has to be, right, because they made a point of noting it while describing his horrible day. I'd like to see league averages, here.

Additionally, they failed to mention several QB hurries, which I've seen them point out in evaluating other players (Ansah in the OP). Not even mentioned, here.


Next, this was a confusing statement...

Quote:
Mingo did show the capacity to get his hands up and deflect passes (Q2, 5.26 and Q3, 4.35), but even that seemed not always to work out, as the first batted pass still found its way into the hands of the receiver.

So, the guy does everything he is supposed to, bats a ball high into the air which could have just as easily been intercepted, but his good work "seemed not always to work out"? Odd phrasing. What else do you want him to do, track the ball 10 yards down the field after tipping it and intercept it himself?

Quote:
His run defense was also poor (-1.7), as he made just the solitary defensive stop and missed a tackle. Just as with his sack, Mingo’s tackle for a loss came as he cleaned up an already destroyed run early in the fourth quarter (13.08).

One of the biggest issues was his failure to remain disciplined and keep outside contain on runs going away from him. Mingo often went flying down the line of scrimmage only to find the runner cutting back to where he should have been.

Again, what is this based on? Bengals' backs had 16 carries for 50 yards for a whopping 3.1 yard per carry average. The longest run by a RB on the day was 6 yards and that was not a case of a cutback to Mingo's side. It was straight up the middle of the line.

The Browns' run defense was dominant all day long and Mingo was on the field for the majority of the snaps. If he was this bad, why didn't it show up in the statistics... And why doesn't anyone remember a case of what they're talking about resulting in a nice gain?

Also, Mingo actually had two tackles for losses. Why did they point out just one, with yet another attempt to dismiss it?

As for the play they're talking about, that's not at all what happened. It wasn't a matter of "cleaning up." There was actually a bad snap on the play. The ball went flying about 10 yards behind the line-of-scrimmage and Mingo was immediately on it. He nearly got the fumble recovery, but Bernard fell on it at the last minute as Mingo came flying down on top of him. It was an incredibly alert play.


The other tackle for loss came on a very important 4th down play as the Bengals were deep in Browns' territory in the first half. It was fourth and 1, Green Ellis got the carry and Mingo submarined him to kill the drive.

Again, no mention of it.



I thought their write-up was odd after Mingo's first two games. Now, it just seems like a bias they have against the guy. Most of the good stuff he did isn't mentioned and, the good stuff they do mention, they do everything in their power to diminish.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Not only was the analysis odd but the writing is pretty poor from that excerpt. I know they are a stats based website but at least put some effort into the writing.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

So, from watching all the plays and judging him with my own eyes.

I tend to agree with the grade they gave him

Out of 29 pass rush attempts (I do not count the 3 step drop backs, they are impossible to get pressure on and would be unfair to give a negative grade to any player for failing to get pressure in those situations) he registered only one pressure (up the middle on a double team) and cleaned up a sack where he initially did not get any pressure, but pealed back and tripped up Dalton a yard behind the LOS.

He also had two tips, which are a nice.....but.....

On the 27 other pass rushes he got man handled, IMO. He showed limited moves and most of the time got stood up and got absolutely no pressure.



Run defense was a mixed bag. He had highs and lows....

On one play he got drove back four yards from the LOS, and he lost contain on three other rushes his way.

He did have some nice plays... early in the game he had deep penetration and blew up the run from the start (although he did miss the tackle, but his penetration killed the play so....) and did his job holding contain in five other instances. He also did his job when the center snapped the ball over the head of the player and he ran it down and made the tackle.

I've seen PFF give out negative grades of -6 and 7 before for pass rushers. So while -3.7 is a pretty underwhelming performance, it's not scrub level.

Overall I was not all that impressed with Mingo for this game.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Not watching the game rather a movie but what is Dion Jordan doing?
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

Jordan has been non existent.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:22 PM   #30
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Default Re: PFF Spotlight on 1st rounders so far.

It's easy to sit here and judge an OLB on every snap and say, "he only got pressure a couple times in "x" drop-backs." It means basically nothing without context. If this was a bad performance by Mingo, what is an average game for OLB? Considering most guys don't average anything close to a sack per game, how the hell could this be a poor performance?

What would we expect as an average performance on 29 pass rush attempts? The Browns' defense completely controlled the game throughout, and for someone who wasn't keyed in on one guy the whole game, it felt like Mingo was all over the place. So, if he actually performed poorly, who were the guys in the front-7 that must have made up for his bad performance with off-the-charts games? Kruger had a couple nice pressures and Taylor/Rubin are always good against the run. Jackson is as steady as it gets in the middle, but none of those guys had a particularly noteworthy game.

I haven't gone through and watched every snap of every play for Mingo, but is odd that everyone who watched the game live came away with the impression that he played really well. Meanwhile, the guys who watch a single guy every snap seem to think he was pretty bad. Context would help. For instance, how good was Kruger on those 29 pass rush attempts? Someone had to be doing really well out there considering the unit's success.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 09-30-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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