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Old 08-21-2013, 01:43 PM   #196
tpols
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Kobe's top scoring playoff totals are

32
32
30
30
29

Dirk's

28
27
27
27
27

Dirk is more efficient, but he scores on less volume.

Kobe has 2.5x more assists.. he playmakes and creates for others a lot more. Dirk's offense is far more one dimensional based on mostly shooting.. kind of like KD but Durants been getting better with his playmaking and ballhandling.

Offensively, Kobes total package as a offensive threat mix of scoring and playmaking is better than Dirks..


Defensively especially from 00-02 playoffs, Kobe had more impact than Dirk has ever had on defense.

He guarded prime iverson, reggie miller, jason kidd among others on the perimeter and shut them down at critical points.. his defense was recognized as the greatest in the league for guards at the time.

That reputation unrightfully carried over to when he was older and less impactful.. because he was too focused on trying to be 'the man' offensively, but in his early days he had defensive seasons that Dirk has never ever ever come close to.

Dirk was coined Irk for a reason. Zero rim or basket protection from your 7 foot PF. The most impactful way a big can affect an offense defensively was Dirks biggest weakness. He was a liability on that end.

He needed a guy that won DPOY in his very next year, while not even being as good as he was in that mavs playoff run, to cover that hole for him. He needed some of the best 3 pt shooting ever and huge games from less famous role players to help him win his first finals.


All this Dirk clutch talk.. the muhfugga shoots 41% in the Finals just like Kobe after being SUPER efficient in the earlier rounds. If thats not choking what is?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #197
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Kobe's top scoring playoff totals are

32
32
30
30
29

Dirk's

28
27
27
27
27

Dirk is more efficient, but he scores on less volume.

Kobe has 2.5x more assists.. he playmakes and creates for others a lot more. Dirk's offense is far more one dimensional based on mostly shooting.. kind of like KD but Durants been getting better with his playmaking and ballhandling.

Offensively, Kobes total package as a offensive threat mix of scoring and playmaking is better than Dirks..


Defensively especially from 00-02 playoffs, Kobe had more impact than Dirk has ever had on defense.

He guarded prime iverson, reggie miller, jason kidd among others on the perimeter and shut them down at critical points.. his defense was recognized as the greatest in the league for guards at the time.

That reputation unrightfully carried over to when he was older and less impactful.. because he was too focused on trying to be 'the man' offensively, but in his early days he had defensive seasons that Dirk has never ever ever come close to.

Dirk was coined Irk for a reason. Zero rim or basket protection from your 7 foot PF. The most impactful way a big can affect an offense defensively was Dirks biggest weakness. He was a liability on that end.

He needed a guy that won DPOY in his very next year, while not even being as good as he was in that mavs playoff run, to cover that hole for him. He needed some of the best 3 pt shooting ever and huge games from less famous role players to help him win his first finals.


All this Dirk clutch talk.. the muhfugga shoots 41% in the Finals just like Kobe after being SUPER efficient in the earlier rounds. If thats not choking what is?

They score virtually the same amount for their playoff careers...Dirk just happens to do it at a 4.3% better TS rate. LOL

Uhhh...we've already given evidence to show that Kobe has made little to no impact overall on defense for his career. In fact, the evidence shows Dirk making more of an impact.

Clutch talk? Take a look at game 7's and elimination games please.

Dirk has double the rebounds. If you bring up playmaking...no reason why I can't bring up rebounding. In fact, Dirk gives a combined 13 rebounds and assists per game. Kobe gives you only 10 combined rebounds and assists...favors Dirk.

Wait...are you implying Dirk needs more help to win than Kobe? Please tell me that isn't what you are doing with the talk about what Dirk needed in 11. Please tell me you aren't trying to pull that shit. What you described was a team that was maybe the 5th worst supporting cast to win the title since 1980...probably worse actually.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #198
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
Dirk's career:

2001: 53 wins (4th best record in the west) - losses in 2nd round (4-1)
2002: 57 wins (4th best record in the west) - losses in 2nd round (4-1)
2003: 60 wins (tied for best record in the west) - losses in WCF, barely beat Portland in 1st round (4-3) & Kings (4-3) in the 2nd round
2004: 52 wins (5th best record in the west) - losses in 1st round (4-1)
2005: 58-24 (2nd best record in the west) - losses in the 2nd round, barely beat Houston in the 1st round (4-3)
2006: 60-22 (2nd best record in the west) - lost a 2-0 lead and got backdoor swept by the Heat
2007: 67-15 (best record in the league) - lost to GS in the 1st round (4-2)

2008: 51-31 (7th best record in the west) - lost in the 1st round (4-1)
2009: 50-32 (6th best record in the west) - lost in the 2nd round (4-1) to the Nuggets
2010: 55-27 (2nd best record in the west) - lost in the 1st round (4-2) to the Spurs

Honestly, how are those results not under-achieving?
It's not even that he lost to Golden State or got backdoor swept on a 67 win team. It's the fact he gave little resistance during the years he lost in 5 games (in the 2nd round) or when he had HCA and still lost (2007, 2010, 2006, 2005)

Lets recap:

1) Lost to an 8th seed after a 67 win season, 4-2, in the 1st round.
2) Lost THREE times with HCA (2010, 2007 & 2006)
3) Lost FIVE times in 5 games (1-4) in those 10 years
4) Struggled to beat a lower seed in the first round FOUR times (2003, 2005, 2007 & 2010)...including being a part of arguably the greatest upset in league history plus losing to the Spurs in 2010 in the 1st round.
5) Having TEN 50+ win seasons and never winning the NBA finals & making the WCF TWICE during those ten years.

Sorry buddy, that's major under-achievement.

Are you mentally challenged?

Tell me which specific years the Mavs underachieved....you'll get only 07 and 10.

Every other year they went as far or farther than expected. In 01, 06, 09, and 11 the Mavs went deeper in the playoffs than expected.

Are you really this dumb?
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:01 PM   #199
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Are you mentally challenged?

Tell me which specific years the Mavs underachieved....you'll get only 07 and 10.

Every other year they went as far or farther than expected. In 01, 06, 09, and 11 the Mavs went deeper in the playoffs than expected.

Are you really this dumb?

Name calling? Weak.
First sign of when a person has nothing else to say because he knows he got owned.

2001: 4th best record gets destroyed in 5 games (under achieved)
2002: 57 wins - destroyed in the 2nd round (under achieved)
2003: 60 win team - barely beats Portland in the 1st round 4-3 (under achieved, then barely manages to beat the Kings in the 2nd round)
2004: 50+ win team losses in 5 games, in the 1st round
2005: 58 win team barely beats Houston in the 1st round (4-3)
2006: Gets backdoor swept after 2-0 lead...
2007: Losses to GS, being apart of the greatest upset in league history.
2008: 50+ win team losses in 5 games in the 1st round
2010: Lost in the 1st round with HCA as the higher seed.

Bro, your "opinion" of when they actually under achieved is irrelevant. Look at those RESULTS dumbass and tell me Dirk didn't underachieve.

Kobe gets shit for losing to Suns in 7 games in 2005, **** 9 out of those 10 years for Dirk is VERY similar. (but worse, since he managed to win 50+ games all those years and still sucked balls in the playoffs)

Go cry in the corner. Your boy is a choke artist.

*Waits for him to talk about Kobe now, or about something irrelevant again.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:02 PM   #200
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Kobe had Shaq averaging 27/15/4 in the 03 playoffs on 57% TS and lost to a Spurs team with a green Tony Parker as the 2nd best player...ROFL...total embarrassment...dude has 27/15/4 2nd option and the GOAT coach and can't get out of the 2nd round.

You need to find a different example because that one is lame

Context.

That Lakers team was tired after three title runs. Anyone following that Laker team knew sometime in April there would be no trip to the Finals that year. The roster was riddled with injuries, Sumaki Walker was Shaqs back up, Devean George was the 3rd option on offense and only Kobe, Shaq and Fish played in all 12 playoff games.

To even be mentioning them as an under-acheiving team is beyond insane and trying to compare them losing as the 5 seed in the second round to the 1 seed Spurs is akin to the Mavs that lost as the 1 seed to an 8 seed in the first round is beyond hilarious. Basically you've entered the trolling zone with that thought.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #201
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
You need to find a different example because that one is lame

Context.

That Lakers team was tired after three title runs. Anyone following that Laker team knew sometime in April there would be no trip to the Finals that year. The roster was riddled with injuries, Sumaki Walker was Shaqs back up, Devean George was the 3rd option on offense and only Kobe, Shaq and Fish played in all 12 playoff games.

To even be mentioning them as an under-acheiving team is beyond insane and trying to compare them losing as the 5 seed in the second round to the 1 seed Spurs is akin to the Mavs that lost as the 1 seed to an 8 seed in the first round is beyond hilarious. Basically you've entered the trolling zone with that thought.

Bro from 01' to 10', Dallas basically did that EVERY freaking season. Yet to him, they only had "two" under-achieving runs.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:06 PM   #202
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

If 2003 Lakers under-achieved then 2001, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2008 & 2010 Mavs definitely under-achieved.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:06 PM   #203
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
Name calling? Weak.
First sign of when a person has nothing else to say because he knows he got owned.

You were doing the same thing with andgar's OP.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:07 PM   #204
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
You were doing the same thing with andgar's OP.

Difference is, I was messing with him; DMAVS is actually upset.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:09 PM   #205
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis
Name calling? Weak.
First sign of when a person has nothing else to say because he knows he got owned.

2001: 4th best record gets destroyed in 5 games (under achieved)
2002: 57 wins - destroyed in the 2nd round (under achieved)
2003: 60 win team - barely beats Portland in the 1st round 4-3 (under achieved, then barely manages to beat the Kings in the 2nd round)
2004: 50+ win team losses in 5 games, in the 1st round
2005: 58 win team barely beats Houston in the 1st round (4-3)
2006: Gets backdoor swept after 2-0 lead...
2007: Losses to GS, being apart of the greatest upset in league history.
2008: 50+ win team losses in 5 games in the 1st round
2010: Lost in the 1st round with HCA as the higher seed.

Bro, your "opinion" of when they actually under achieved is irrelevant. Look at those RESULTS dumbass and tell me Dirk didn't underachieve.

Kobe gets shit for losing to Suns in 7 games in 2005, **** 9 out of those 10 years for Dirk is VERY similar.

Go cry in the corner. Your boy is a choke artist.

*Waits for him to talk about Kobe now, or about something irrelevant again.

This isn't opinion dude. Here is reality;

01 - Underdog against Jazz...upset Jazz (advanced farther than expected)
02 - 50/50 series against Wolves (swept them)...lost to loaded Kings team as underdogs
03 - Made the WCF as expected and lost a 50/50 series to Spurs (you probably didn't even know Dirk got hurt in game 3)
04 - Lost to the favored Kings
05 - Beat Rockets as expected and lost to the favored Suns
06 - Upset the title favorite Spurs in 2nd round (advanced farther than expected)
07 - Lost in first round as big favorite
08 - Lost to the favored Hornets
09 - Upset the Spurs in the first round (advanced farther than expected)
10 - Lost in the first round as a slight favorite to Spurs
11 - Upset huge favorite Lakers and Heat en route to winning title
12 - Lost to the favored Thunder

Those are all factual. You can't debate that. There is a factual favorite going into a series. And even in hindsight...outside of 07 and 10...not once did the Mavs fail to advance as far or farther than they should have given the roster.

Hell, hindsight actually makes the Mavs look better. They went farther in the playoffs than expected in 01, 06, 09, and 11...that is just factual.

The two times they failed? A loaded Warriors team that was a nightmare matchup for the Mavs that happened to still win 42 games despite huge injury problems all season...and a Spurs team that won 5 less games with Parker being injured 30 games.

Wow...stop trying to debate facts.

Roasted...
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #206
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
You need to find a different example because that one is lame

Context.

That Lakers team was tired after three title runs. Anyone following that Laker team knew sometime in April there would be no trip to the Finals that year. The roster was riddled with injuries, Sumaki Walker was Shaqs back up, Devean George was the 3rd option on offense and only Kobe, Shaq and Fish played in all 12 playoff games.

To even be mentioning them as an under-acheiving team is beyond insane and trying to compare them losing as the 5 seed in the second round to the 1 seed Spurs is akin to the Mavs that lost as the 1 seed to an 8 seed in the first round is beyond hilarious. Basically you've entered the trolling zone with that thought.


You misunderstand, as usual...I never compared it to the Mavs losing in 07.

I said if you ignore all context...the Lakers underachieved that year. You are just making my point for me. Just like tpols did.

I never once said the Lakers losing in 03 was comparable to the Mavs losing in 07...in fact, I said it's not.

So please read the posts before you interject.

And what you did is my point. You brought context to the 03 loss. Why not bring the same context to the Mavs only two playoff failures? Why? Because it hurts the agenda of people on here.

They want to keep living the fantasy that the Mavs were playoff failures. When in reality...even on strict no context criteria....the Mavs only failed to advance farther in the playoffs than expected twice. And advanced farther than expected 4 times.

Yea...those are facts.

Not to mention if you actually bring context into the 07 and 10 playoffs...you get a very similar rationale to the one you used above. Which again...thanks for making my point for me.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #207
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
This isn't opinion dude. Here is reality;

01 - Underdog against Jazz...upset Jazz (advanced farther than expected)
02 - 50/50 series against Wolves (swept them)...lost to loaded Kings team as underdogs
03 - Made the WCF as expected and lost a 50/50 series to Spurs (you probably didn't even know Dirk got hurt in game 3)
04 - Lost to the favored Kings
05 - Beat Rockets as expected and lost to the favored Suns
06 - Upset the title favorite Spurs in 2nd round (advanced farther than expected)
07 - Lost in first round as big favorite
08 - Lost to the favored Hornets
09 - Upset the Spurs in the first round (advanced farther than expected)
10 - Lost in the first round as a slight favorite to Spurs
11 - Upset huge favorite Lakers and Heat en route to winning title
12 - Lost to the favored Thunder

Those are all factual. You can't debate that. There is a factual favorite going into a series. And even in hindsight...outside of 07 and 10...not once did the Mavs fail to advance as far or farther than they should have given the roster.

Hell, hindsight actually makes the Mavs look better. They went farther in the playoffs than expected in 01, 06, 09, and 11...that is just factual.

The two times they failed? A loaded Warriors team that was a nightmare matchup for the Mavs that happened to still win 42 games despite huge injury problems all season...and a Spurs team that won 5 less games with Parker being injured 30 games.

Wow...stop trying to debate facts.

Roasted...





I'll let you live in your own little world there buddy.
You know what's sad?

Between 00' & 10'; Dirk, Kobe & Duncan had similar regular season success, their average wins per season is VERY close, marginally different.

Yet; Kobe 7 final appearance & 5 championships
Duncan; 3 final appearances & 3 championships
Dirk; 1 final appearance & 0 championships


That's ether for you.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #208
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmic †hesis




I'll let you live in your own little world there buddy.
You know what's sad?

Between 00' & 10'; Dirk, Kobe & Duncan had similar regular season success, their average wins per season is VERY close, marginally different.

Yet; Kobe 7 final appearance & 5 championships
Duncan; 3 final appearances & 3 championships
Dirk; 1 final appearance & 0 championships


That's ether for you.

No it's not. You just lost the debate...because nobody would ever deny the fact that Kobe had significantly more help than Dirk.

And why would you arbitrarily pick 00 to 10. At least do 00 to 11.

The ether is that you keep trying to dispute facts.

I want to go through each year with you.

Start with 01...tell me if they overachieved or underachieved
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #209
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I said if you ignore all context...the Lakers underachieved that year. You are just making my point for me. Just like tpols did.

Why would anyone do that? that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Lets talk hoops but for parity's sake let's ignore context so I can win the argument

Fu*king ISH
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:21 PM   #210
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Default Re: How do Kobe stans cope with the fact that

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
Why would anyone do that? that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Lets talk hoops but for parity's sake let's ignore context so I can win the argument

Fu*king ISH

Again. You miss the point. It was in response to someone ignoring the context of the Mavs.

You really need to take the time to read before you jump in.

You can't have one person using the context and another not and have a fair platform for making points.

So you either both bring it or not.

And of course I agree you should bring in context. But if someone wants to tell me that the 03 Mavs underachieved by losing to the Spurs in the WCF with an inured Dirk...you better believe I'm using that criteria to say the 03 Lakers underachieved.

Give me a ****ing break...only on ISH
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