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Old 06-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #151
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
I never said, "he dominated like he used to". Learn to read.

If this guy, because of his "sheer greatness", was able to put up multiple 40 point games at 39 and 40 years old, just think what he would have done in his 20's. The guy would dominate the landscape of the NBA today; maybe even more-so with the lax perimeter rules. Educate yourself.
You have to learn to read, did I say that MJ would suck today? Damn no, I believe he would be still great, but I just don't see him average 35 points on 60% shooting like some of you nostalgic dinosaurs seem to believe. And what's even funnier is you guys who aren't even half as old as me think "it was all better in 80s". The game has evolved and the best defenders he faced at that times were the likes of Craig Ehlo / Joe Dumars.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:37 PM   #152
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Error
Magic: 17 ppg, 7 rpg, 10 apg, 45% FG
Bird: 19 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, 48% FG

The game has evolved, the tempo of the game has changed and guys are much bigger / more athletic nowadays. Since they're basketball prodigies they will still find a way and make the necessary adjustments, but you're an idiot if you expect them to dominate like they did, it's like expecting Carl Lewis to outrun Usain Bolt.
You are a human error you waste.

Your numbers make no sense in reference to pace or playing level. We're talking about going from 105-110 pts/g to 98 pts/g. Their stats will not drop 20%. Rebounds per game stats has hardly even changed LMFAO and you dropped their rebound #'s dramatically like your are some bball expert.

Carmelo averaged 29/7/3, Chris Paul averaged 17/4/10, Paul George averaged 17/8/4, and you think Bird will average 19/6/6 and Magic 17/7/10?

Who the hell? You know you are talking about GOAT players who played against MJ and Wilkins? Yeah, they will find a way to adjust to all these freakish players like Carmelo and Chris Paul.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:44 PM   #153
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Error
You have to learn to read, did I say that MJ would suck today? Damn no, I believe he would be still great, but I just don't see him average 35 points on 60% shooting like some of you nostalgic dinosaurs seem to believe. And what's even funnier is you guys who aren't even half as old as me think "it was all better in 80s". The game has evolved and the best defenders he faced at that times were the likes of Craig Ehlo / Joe Dumars.

And guys like. Nate McMillan, Xavier McDaniel, Richmond, Sprewell, Dennis Rodman, Terry Cummings, Alvin Robertson, Nick Anderson, Gerald Wilkins, Stacey Augmon.

Defensively Jordan's era was tougher, more physical, and handchecking was still allowed on the perimeter, unlike today. You have just forgotten, or never knew, what good defense looks like.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #154
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
And guys like. Nate McMillan, Xavier McDaniel, Richmond, Sprewell, Dennis Rodman, Terry Cummings, Alvin Robertson, Nick Anderson, Gerald Wilkins, Stacey Augmon.

Defensively Jordan's era was tougher, more physical, and handchecking was still allowed on the perimeter, unlike today. You have just forgotten, or never knew, what good defense looks like.

no it wasn't man...people stay making up shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rto2_oYVs0I


this 1985, the "golden era of basketball...where the hand checking at?



this when he dropped 63 against the Celts, where the Handchecking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0ZS8HWw5A


people exaggerate the physicality
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #155
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aburre21
no it wasn't man...people stay making up shit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rto2_oYVs0I


this 1985, the "golden era of basketball...where the hand checking at?



this when he dropped 63 against the Celts, where the Handchecking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0ZS8HWw5A


people exaggerate the physicality

I'm not making up anything. The footage is there for you to see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-qGWkiKvQ
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:50 PM   #156
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCorporation
Pace.

Rondo was the only player to get over 9.7 and he INTENTIONALLY gives up shots to pad his assists. Shit, CP3, D-WIll, etc couldn't get 10. Not even close...

I was reading the last few pages through this thread and then I read this one in response to why Magic wouldn't average more than 9 assists a game Using Rondo and co. as a comparison to why Magic would struggle is the worst logic I could possibly think of :

You stupid child, why don't you get a clue first before you start talking about players you never saw or even know about. Why don't you stick to the threads that demonstrate how clueless and out of touch you are about basketball-maybe start with the "Lebron is the Greatest" fapping threads and leave these threads to people who know what they are talking about.

Going on past history and 80's-90's being a tougher era, I'd say Magic would go 22pts 8 rebs and 12 assts, Bird would go 28-30 pts 10 rebs and 6 assists. Also depending what type of team they land on, give or take a point or an assist a game.

Last edited by poido123 : 06-29-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:10 PM   #157
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I agree. Thats why I prefaced my statement by saying or better yet never did it. He was more than capable. Obviously, if he set out to score like that he could. But still the fact remains he never did it. So now were supposed to believe that a guy that hovered around 25-26 ppg for his prime, would avg 30 ppg? In an era where the available shot attempts are cut by roughly 20-25%? Better yet 30/14/8? GTFO

He didn't average 25-26 in that era because he wasn't capable of shooting more. He averaged that in a team that had at least 3 very good scorers. He averaged 30 in the late 80s when his same partners in crime were injured/unhealthy. So why couldn't he do the same thing in an era where he can clearly shoot enough to score that much, and in this era he won't have competition in his own team to the extent that those Celtics did? That's why in a weak team in this era he could clearly average 30. Pace doesn't matter for stars...their team composition matters more. Bird averaged 25-30 playing on all-time great sides, why couldn't he score that much in a good side in this era (which doesn't require him to share the ball near as much)?

The same things go for his rebounding and assists. When he was playing PF he was an 11RPG player and in 87 when he had to shoulder a lot of the load he was an 8APG player. As aforesaid, clearly the team composition and his role plays a large part of how he'd do. You're especially talking about a player who had f-all usage in comparison to 90% of stars.

It is simple logic that you get but don't apply for some reason.

Last edited by LeBird : 06-29-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:17 AM   #158
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Lol. I think your being unreasonable bro. Youre totally dismissing my points. And now rehashing.
So somethings gotta give. If Bird keeps taking the same amount if shots, then the rest of the Celtics numbers fall. Then that starting five isnt that impressive.

So somethings gotta give. If Bird keeps taking the same amount if shots, then the rest of the Celtics numbers fall. Then that starting five isnt that impressive
Did you change your argument? I was talking about Bird capability of being able to shoot 18-22 shots a game if he is the number 1 option in this era. But you are mentioning the 80s Celtics team in general if they were to play within this era and whatever or not the team would get their shots?

Well, there were a couple teams like I said that have similar starting five like the 95 an 96 Magic. The 95 magic had 5 guys that had over 13 points per game. The celtics had four. And look averages. With the Magic:
Shaq had 20 FGA
Penny had 15 FGA
Nick Anderson had 12
Dennis Scott had 10
Horace Grant had 10

67 shots average with those five.

With the 1986 Celtics:
Bird had 20 FGA
Mchale had 14 FGA
Dennis Johnson had 14 FGA
Robert Parish had 12 FGA
Danny Ainge had 9 FGA

69 shots on average with them.

Virtually the same, but with more talent and better team ball. The Lakers of 97 and 98 were similar. They may not play the same, and the bench won't that many shots, but it isn't impossible for the Celtics starting team to get amount of shots. But this conversation is about the team and not Bird being able to get that many shots today without having the same teammates.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:06 AM   #159
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

at people thinking a difference of like 10 in pace would considerably change a star's averages.

Bird's stats over the course of 75 games at a average pace of 93.0 is virtually the same, even considering 23 games from 1989-1992 when he was a freaking shell, plus he had low USG% compared to other superstars and he wasn't the main ball-handler:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po1M--HaINA

Oh, and great athletes and/or great defensive players? He went up against the likes of Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Dominique Wilkins, Michael Cooper, Scottie Pippen, Orlando Woolridge, Clifford Robinson, Michael Jordan, Rodney McCray, Larry Nance, Dan Roundfield, Julius Erving, Buck Williams, Xavier McDaniel, Paul Pressey, Jerome Kersey, Clyde Drexler, Lonnie Shelton, Sidney Moncrief, Kenny Walker, Horace Grant, Tom Chambers... Look them up if you don't know them and be impressed. Plus taller, better and tougher bigmen packing the paint, and rules didn't benefit offense like nowadays.
If anything he would've had life considerably easier nowadays, looking at all of that above
Also, back on d, the lack of bigmen and zone defenses helps him even more because he could play even more PF, as he was a better and good post defender, and he's one of the goat team defenders.

I'm pretty sure that for Magic it would be the same.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:08 AM   #160
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

I think their numbers would basically be the same.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:20 AM   #161
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micku
Did you change your argument? I was talking about Bird capability of being able to shoot 18-22 shots a game if he is the number 1 option in this era. But you are mentioning the 80s Celtics team in general if they were to play within this era and whatever or not the team would get their shots?

Well, there were a couple teams like I said that have similar starting five like the 95 an 96 Magic. The 95 magic had 5 guys that had over 13 points per game. The celtics had four. And look averages. With the Magic:
Shaq had 20 FGA
Penny had 15 FGA
Nick Anderson had 12
Dennis Scott had 10
Horace Grant had 10

67 shots average with those five.

With the 1986 Celtics:
Bird had 20 FGA
Mchale had 14 FGA
Dennis Johnson had 14 FGA
Robert Parish had 12 FGA
Danny Ainge had 9 FGA

69 shots on average with them.

Virtually the same, but with more talent and better team ball. The Lakers of 97 and 98 were similar. They may not play the same, and the bench won't that many shots, but it isn't impossible for the Celtics starting team to get amount of shots. But this conversation is about the team and not Bird being able to get that many shots today without having the same teammates.
I never changed my argument. I even stated in the right situation he might be able. Meaning on a bad team. But that woukd be at the expense of championships and MVPs.

The Orlando Magic/Boston Celtic argument is interesting. But you still owe The Magic 300 FGAs. This is why avg FGAs is tricky. Too many variables.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:29 AM   #162
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
80s NBA basketball averaged up to 115 poss. a game (pace)... 20+ more than today.... thats a much higher pace, especially for the showtime Lakers & Celtics who probably had the highest pace of those 80s teams...
If your'e going to try and sound educated, at least make an attempt to do some research. Here's the league average and league leader in pace from the 1980 season to the 1990 season. Also, what the Lakers and Celtics pace was in each season, and their league rank.

Not one time did a team average 115 possessions per 48 minutes. And the league leader was Nuggets almost every single year until Don Nelson's Run TMC Warriors came along and started challenging them in the late '80's. Some years they were +5 or +3 ahead of he second fastest paced team.

As for the "showtime Lakers & Celtics probably had the highest pace" bullshit...

Lakers
Average Rank: 9.7
Highest Rank: 4th
Top 5: 1 time

Celtics
Average Rank: 13.9
Highest Rank: 6th
Top 5: 0 times

And remember, it was a 23 team league until the 1988-1989 season.

1980
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader 109.1)
Lakers: 104.1 (8th)
Celtics: 102.6 (12th)

1981
League Average: 101.8 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 102.7 (8th)
Celtics: 100.8 (15th)

1982
League Average: 100.9 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 103.1 (4th)
Celtics: 101.5 (8th)

1983
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader: 112.1)
Lakers: 103.8 (10th)
Celtics: 104.0 (6th)

1984
League Average: 101.4 (League Leader: 110.5)
Lakers: 103.7 (6th)
Celtics: 99.7 (15th)

1985
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 107.6)
Lakers: 103.2 (8th)
Celtics: 101.6 (13th)

1986
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 106.7)
Lakers: 102.7 (10th)
Celtics: 101.2 (16th)

1987
League Average: 100.8 (League Leader: 106.2)
Lakers: 101.6 (10th)
Celtics: 98.6 (19th)

1988
League Average: 99.6 (League Leader: 105.5)
Lakers: 99.6 (11th)
Celtics: 97.9 (17th)

1989
League Average: 100.6 (League Leader: 107.5)
Lakers: 100.1 (12th)
Celtics: 98.1 (20th)

1990
League Average: 98.3 (League Leader: 105.9)
Lakers: 96.3 (20th)
Celtics: 98.2 (12th)


I mean I have no idea where they hell you got 115 possessions from. The highest pace of the entire decade was 112 and the second fastest pace team that year was 107. I've seen you fabricate the pace of the 80's before, though, in order to inflate what you think LeBron would average in that era, so it doesn't surprise me.

I'm a little upset it took me so long to see another one of your bullshit lies, because you'll probably never see this, but you've got to be one of the 5 worst posters here, and that's really saying something.

Last edited by KG215 : 06-30-2013 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:33 AM   #163
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
If your'e going to try and sound educated, at least make an attempt to do some research. Here's the league average and league leader in pace from the 1980 season to the 1990 season. Also, what the Lakers and Celtics pace was in each season, and their league rank.

Not one time did a team average 115 possessions per 48 minutes. And the league leader every single year were the Nuggets, which shouldn't be a surprise. Some years they were +5 or +3 ahead of he second fastest paced team.

As for the "showtime Lakers & Celtics probably had the highest pace" bullshit...

Lakers
Average Rank: 9.7
Highest Rank: 4th
Top 5: 1 time

Celtics
Average Rank: 13.9
Highest Rank: 6th
Top 5: 0 times

And remember, it was a 23 team league until the 1988-1989 season.

1980
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader 109.1)
Lakers: 104.1 (8th)
Celtics: 102.6 (12th)

1981
League Average: 101.8 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 102.7 (8th)
Celtics: 100.8 (15th)

1982
League Average: 100.9 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 103.1 (4th)
Celtics: 101.5 (8th)

1983
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader: 112.1)
Lakers: 103.8 (10th)
Celtics: 104.0 (6th)

1984
League Average: 101.4 (League Leader: 110.5)
Lakers: 103.7 (6th)
Celtics: 99.7 (15th)

1985
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 107.6)
Lakers: 103.2 (8th)
Celtics: 101.6 (13th)

1986
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 106.7)
Lakers: 102.7 (10th)
Celtics: 101.2 (16th)

1987
League Average: 100.8 (League Leader: 106.2)
Lakers: 101.6 (10th)
Celtics: 98.6 (19th)

1988
League Average: 99.6 (League Leader: 105.5)
Lakers: 99.6 (11th)
Celtics: 97.9 (17th)

1989
League Average: 100.6 (League Leader: 107.5)
Lakers: 100.1 (12th)
Celtics: 98.1 (20th)

1990
League Average: 98.3
Lakers: 96.3 (20th)
Celtics: 98.2 (12th)


I mean I have no idea where they hell you got 115 possessions from. The highest pace of the entire decade was 112 and the second fastest pace team that year was 107. I've seen you fabricate the pace of the 80's before, though, in order to inflate what you think LeBron would average in that era, so it doesn't surprise me.



Damn, that's cold.
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:12 AM   #164
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy

most of that footage is cherrypicked and there wasn't much hand checking in those games. You can find the same amount of contact in today's game
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:21 AM   #165
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Default Re: What would Larry Bird and Magic average in this Era?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
If your'e going to try and sound educated, at least make an attempt to do some research. Here's the league average and league leader in pace from the 1980 season to the 1990 season. Also, what the Lakers and Celtics pace was in each season, and their league rank.

Not one time did a team average 115 possessions per 48 minutes. And the league leader was Nuggets almost every single year until Don Nelson's Run TMC Warriors came along and started challenging them in the late '80's. Some years they were +5 or +3 ahead of he second fastest paced team.

As for the "showtime Lakers & Celtics probably had the highest pace" bullshit...

Lakers
Average Rank: 9.7
Highest Rank: 4th
Top 5: 1 time

Celtics
Average Rank: 13.9
Highest Rank: 6th
Top 5: 0 times

And remember, it was a 23 team league until the 1988-1989 season.

1980
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader 109.1)
Lakers: 104.1 (8th)
Celtics: 102.6 (12th)

1981
League Average: 101.8 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 102.7 (8th)
Celtics: 100.8 (15th)

1982
League Average: 100.9 (League Leader: 109.8)
Lakers: 103.1 (4th)
Celtics: 101.5 (8th)

1983
League Average: 103.1 (League Leader: 112.1)
Lakers: 103.8 (10th)
Celtics: 104.0 (6th)

1984
League Average: 101.4 (League Leader: 110.5)
Lakers: 103.7 (6th)
Celtics: 99.7 (15th)

1985
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 107.6)
Lakers: 103.2 (8th)
Celtics: 101.6 (13th)

1986
League Average: 102.1 (League Leader: 106.7)
Lakers: 102.7 (10th)
Celtics: 101.2 (16th)

1987
League Average: 100.8 (League Leader: 106.2)
Lakers: 101.6 (10th)
Celtics: 98.6 (19th)

1988
League Average: 99.6 (League Leader: 105.5)
Lakers: 99.6 (11th)
Celtics: 97.9 (17th)

1989
League Average: 100.6 (League Leader: 107.5)
Lakers: 100.1 (12th)
Celtics: 98.1 (20th)

1990
League Average: 98.3 (League Leader: 105.9)
Lakers: 96.3 (20th)
Celtics: 98.2 (12th)


I mean I have no idea where they hell you got 115 possessions from. The highest pace of the entire decade was 112 and the second fastest pace team that year was 107. I've seen you fabricate the pace of the 80's before, though, in order to inflate what you think LeBron would average in that era, so it doesn't surprise me.

I'm a little upset it took me so long to see another one of your bullshit lies, because you'll probably never see this, but you've got to be one of the 5 worst posters here, and that's really saying something.

LOL, pauk/TonyMontana just getting abused.
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