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Old 05-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Old 05-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
I personally have those two, as well as Magic and Wilt. Magic never sniffed a losing season, and took an underachieiving team to a world title in his first season. Then, he guided them to nine Finals and five titles in 12 seasons. And, after he retired, the Lakers returned to the same level they were at before he arrived.

As for Chamberlain...as John Wooden said...had Wilt an Russell swapped rosters...and likely it would have been Wilt with all of those rings. An along the way, Wilt dominated his peers, including post-season play, like no other player in NBA history.

But the fact that Wilt only won 2 titles with great teams from 1965-73 makes Wooden wrong..
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Old 05-25-2013, 01:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoHnNyBoXeR
Lol I hear what your saying but his height is his height .. He would be 6'9 in yesterday's nba and 6'9 in today's nba.. Lol


Except that in this situation "6-9" listed Bill Russell is virtually the same height as the "7-0" listed Patrick Ewing. Doesn't matter what the number says on list info. List info in this case, isn't correct. If the man is 6-9 and 5/8ths of an inch tall w/o shoes on than that means he's taller than Dwight Howard, and as tall as pretty much any center from any era needs to be in order to be effective. There's nothing undersized about being a shade under 6-10 w/o shoes on and having a 7-4 wingspan. That's actually a pretty imposing size considering what a gifted athlete he was.

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Old 05-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.




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Old 05-25-2013, 02:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Honestly, even at the center position I'd take Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, and Hakeem over Russell.

That's not a knock on Russell, but if you have a chance to draft any player in NBA history, I think you'd prefer one who's a dominant scoring threat.

A defender can only impact the game to a certain point, basketball is a sport that favors the offensive player because you can't just tackle or physically hit the offensive player.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Originally Posted by Shade8780



Changed his avatar from Noah to him as well

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Old 05-25-2013, 02:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Now he's saying he's better than MJ. What's next, he's gonna get a tattoo of Russell's face on his stomach? Change his name to Bill Russell?
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
Honestly, even at the center position I'd take Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, and Hakeem over Russell.

That's not a knock on Russell, but if you have a chance to draft any player in NBA history, I think you'd prefer one who's a dominant scoring threat.

A defender can only impact the game to a certain point, basketball is a sport that favors the offensive player because you can't just tackle or physically hit the offensive player.
Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, both teammates of Wilt, (with West eventually overseeing Kareem's entire career, and recruited/saw Shaq's saw entire LA career unfold) both said within this past year during interviews that I've collected, that looking back, they'd choose NOBODY over Bill Russell to start a franchise. Bill Russell would be their number one choice, every piece added afterwards is secondary. I know we as fans like to think we're clever getting the guys with the best stats offensively or defensively and whatnot, but there's just something about Russell's approach to the game that WINS. And for some reason, PLAYERS and COACHES that understand what Russell could do all seem to gravitate towards picking him to start their all-time-nba-team. I'm as big a Wilt fan as any... but heck, I'd even pick Russell if I wanted to win.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, both teammates of Wilt, (with West eventually overseeing Kareem's entire career, and recruited/saw Shaq's saw entire LA career unfold) both said within this past year during interviews that I've collected, that looking back, they'd choose NOBODY over Bill Russell to start a franchise. Bill Russell would be their number one choice, every piece added afterwards is secondary. I know we as fans like to think we're clever getting the guys with the best stats and whatnot, but there's just something about Russell's approach to the game that WINS.
Not only that, just about every great player from the 60's said they wouldn't have wanted to play with Wilt. He went on a no foul out streak that had started back in his High School days and would go on for the rest of his career, affecting his team a lot on defense in tight game situations. People who think Wilt is better than Russ should research about their games instead of their stats.

Back in his Sixers days, there was a poll made by the Lakers GM at the time asking fans if they should trade for Wilt, and the majority said no. This was during the time he was basically putting his assist count over whether his team wins or loses. Russell was 10x the competitor and man that Wilt was. Russell > Kareem >> Wilt.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade8780
Not only that, just about every great player from the 60's said they wouldn't have wanted to play with Wilt. He went on a no foul out streak that had started back in his High School days and would go on for the rest of his career, affecting his team a lot on defense in tight game situations. People who think Wilt is better than Russ should research about their games instead of their stats.

Back in his Sixers days, there was a poll made by the Lakers GM at the time asking fans if they should trade for Wilt, and the majority said no. This was during the time he was basically putting his assist count over whether his team wins or loses. Russell was 10x the competitor and man that Wilt was. Russell > Kareem >> Wilt.
You literally made that up

And the assumption that Wilt's "no foul out streak" was a hindrance to his career - is fabricated, and baseless. Show me ANY sort of feedback from his 1960's/70's players/coaches that said "Wilt's lack of fouling out cost him/us ______ ".
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade8780



Changed his avatar from Noah to him as well

Why are you laughing at a man who is clearly schizophrenic. It is a serious mental disorder.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Why are you laughing at a man who is clearly schizophrenic. It is a serious mental disorder.
Is this sarcasm? :P
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, both teammates of Wilt, (with West eventually overseeing Kareem's entire career, and recruited/saw Shaq's saw entire LA career unfold) both said within this past year during interviews that I've collected, that looking back, they'd choose NOBODY over Bill Russell to start a franchise. Bill Russell would be their number one choice, every piece added afterwards is secondary. I know we as fans like to think we're clever getting the guys with the best stats offensively or defensively and whatnot, but there's just something about Russell's approach to the game that WINS. And for some reason, PLAYERS and COACHES that understand what Russell could do all seem to gravitate towards picking him to start their all-time-nba-team. I'm as big a Wilt fan as any... but heck, I'd even pick Russell if I wanted to win.

Well, I will say that West made this comment about Chamberlain back around 2000...

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html

Quote:
"He was the most unbelievable center to ever play the game in terms of domination and intimidation. There's no one that's ever played the game better than Wilt Chamberlain. This was a man for all ages."



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Old 05-25-2013, 02:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
I personally have those two, as well as Magic and Wilt. Magic never sniffed a losing season, and took an underachieiving team to a world title in his first season. Then, he guided them to nine Finals and five titles in 12 seasons. And, after he retired, the Lakers returned to the same level they were at before he arrived.

As for Chamberlain...as John Wooden said...had Wilt an Russell swapped rosters...and likely it would have been Wilt with all of those rings. An along the way, Wilt dominated his peers, including post-season play, like no other player in NBA history.

I used to have Magic along with the two of them, but recently I've held Bird in a higher regard. I don't do GOAT lists anymore, but insofar as GOAT candidacy is concerned:

• Russ/MJ are strong candidates, nobody else is, but the four below are all at least weak GOAT candidates (there are perhaps others)
• Bird needs to be ahead of Magic
• Wilt needs to be ahead of Kareem

I don't know where everyone else figures in (nor do I care all that much really about the exact order), but I'm very confident about the above.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanlove1111
But the fact that Wilt only won 2 titles with great teams from 1965-73 makes Wooden wrong..

How do you know? He says that if Russell and Wilt swapped rosters, that Chamberlain might very well have won all those rings. Since they didn't, we don't know. We do know that Russell enjoyed a huge edge in surrounding talent in the majority of their ten seasons in the league together, and that his teammates also outplayed Chamberlain's in nearly all of their post-season h2h's.

The fact that Russell, with far superior talent won two game seven's, by 2 1and 1 point, against what were basically last place rosters before Chamberlain arrived, and with those rosters playing horribly, just speaks volumes about how far one man could carry a team against an army.
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