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Old 05-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #136
LAZERUSS
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTenth
Wow! Jordan was outscored by Detlef Schrempf in game 6 when DPOY Gary Payton guarded him, he must be really bad! But Jordan can score 69 points against the Caveliers... What a stat padder!

In reality though, Wilt had 3/4 game 7's where he was asked to score less (1962, 1968, 1969) and only 1 game 7 where he was asked to score at his normal output (1965.) A good defender can hold a player below their averages, why are we surprised the greatest defender can too? Btw, Wilt held Russell belows his averages too...

The differences is, however, that Wilt also upped his RPG playing Russell which is a great accomplishment since many consider Russell a top 5 rebounder of all time.

As great a defender as Russell was, he often had help against Wilt. Even his teammates have acknowledged that it was a "team effort" to contain Chamberlain. In fact, Heinsohn claimed that they brutalized Wilt.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #137
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
As great a defender as Russell was, he often had help against Wilt. Even his teammates have acknowledged that it was a "team effort" to contain Chamberlain. In fact, Heinsohn claimed that they brutalized Wilt.
Of course I thought that was obvious. A player of Chamberlain's caliber definetly warrants double/triple teams. And Russell had alot of great defenders/help defenders around him.

Watching the 1964 NBA finals tape it's almost pathetic to see how terrible shooters like Attles, Rodgers, Phillips, and Thurmond are. The Jones Boys could basically go double team with no fear of giving up open looks to Attles/Rodgers. Thurmond could never even get league average FG% as a center/pf.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:06 PM   #138
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Originally Posted by TheTenth
Of course I thought that was obvious. A player of Chamberlain's caliber definetly warrants double/triple teams. And Russell had alot of great defenders/help defenders around him.

Watching the 1964 NBA finals tape it's almost pathetic to see how terrible shooters like Attles, Rodgers, Phillips, and Thurmond are. The Jones Boys could basically go double team with no fear of giving up open looks to Attles/Rodgers. Thurmond could never even get league average FG% as a center/pf.

Yeah...I agree 100%. Not only that, but those guys, most notably Rodgers, kept shooting. While Wilt was shooting very efficiently in that game (and series), going 12-23 from the field, and scoring 27 points, Rodgers just kept rushing dow the floor and throwing up prayer-after-prayer. It was painfilly obvious why Rodgers was considered one of the worst shooters in the history of the NBA. BTW, Wilt was often doubled and tripled in that game, but he still outscored Russell, 27-8; outshot him from the floor, 12-23 to 3-9; and outrebounded him, 38-19. All in a 98-95 loss...which pretty much summed up his the bulk of his post-season career against Russell.
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Old 05-26-2013, 12:30 PM   #139
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
Yeah...I agree 100%. Not only that, but those guys, most notably Rodgers, kept shooting. While Wilt was shooting very efficiently in that game (and series), going 12-23 from the field, and scoring 27 points, Rodgers just kept rushing dow the floor and throwing up prayer-after-prayer. It was painfilly obvious why Rodgers was considered one of the worst shooters in the history of the NBA. BTW, Wilt was often doubled and tripled in that game, but he still outscored Russell, 27-8; outshot him from the floor, 12-23 to 3-9; and outrebounded him, 38-19. All in a 98-95 loss...which pretty much summed up his the bulk of his post-season career against Russell.
Russell was pretty much the Joachim Noah of the celtics. People bitch about today's centers, but that's the exact style of center Russell was.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:04 PM   #140
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Career numbers...

Wilt: 30.1PPG on 54%, 22.9RPG, 4.4APG

Bill: 15.1PPG on 44%, 22.5RPG, 4.3APG


There's nothing to argue.


First of all I can't believe anyone can claim to know much about bball and think stats tell the whole story...That's laughable..

I am going to let you in on something here..There is a thing called defense ( which Russell was known to be the best ever at) which doesn't show up in your stats..
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #141
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

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Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
As great a defender as Russell was, he often had help against Wilt. Even his teammates have acknowledged that it was a "team effort" to contain Chamberlain. In fact, Heinsohn claimed that they brutalized Wilt.


Rubbish. The Celtics goal was usually to have Russell guard Wilt alone.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:07 PM   #142
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZERUSS
You mean the Bird that averaged 15 ppg and shot .419 in the '81 Finals, and against a team that had gone 40-42?

And the Magic, who without Kareem, led his team to a title-clinching win on the road, and putting up a 42-15-7 game in the process (BTW, his 15 rebounds was 5 better than anyone else in that game.)


Did you watch the series? Are you even aware that you can play well while you are not shooting well. How many rebounds did Bird get that series, and he still set everything up for his team. He was easily the MVP of that series for the Celtics.
Jabbar was clearly the best player in the series for the first 5 games..Jabbar best player for 5 games, Magic best player for 1.

But this whole FMVP you clowns obsesse with has really gotten old..Does this really need to be explained to you? Here goes once again.
Every playoff series is equaling important..You win or go home. If a player is the 3rd best player on his team for the first 3 playoffs series but has a great finals because of a matchup issue with the opponent you guys then act like he is a better player then the player who was the best player for the first three series and the second best in the finals..Its idiotic..But if never stops with new younger fans..Not surprised.

Last edited by stanlove1111 : 05-26-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:24 PM   #143
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Default Re: I'd take Russell > Jordan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanlove1111
Rubbish. The Celtics goal was usually to have Russell guard Wilt alone.

Since you obviously never witnessed one minute between the two...

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html

Quote:
In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever.. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."


Continuing ...

http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-...mmy-4000-words

Quote:
The Celtics didn’t have to double- or triple-team Wilt because of Bill Russell’s defense. Bill’s strategy was to deny the entry pass; if Wilt did get the ball down low, Bill stayed between him and the basket, tried to take away the lane; if Wilt got the shot off, Bill would block it if he could and always made certain to box Wilt out. Bill played Wilt clean, didn’t hack or whack, did nothing to antagonize the big man.

That assignment was given to Tommy Heinsohn. When Wilt got the ball in the low post, Tommy was detailed to stop him - punch the ball, grab his arms, and, if nothing else worked, tackle the giant. Tommy’s courage was legendary, as he proved repeatedly over the course of his career, but putting him up against Wilt seemed a horrendous mismatch. Tommy was a full head shorter and fifty pounds lighter and wasn’t the only one who considered Wilt the strongest man in the world, once calling him “King Kong in sneakers”.



Or how about KC Jones...

http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-...mmy-4000-words

Quote:
K.C. Jones, arguably the savviest team player in the history of the game, was also a rookie that year and had a front row seat for Bill and Wilt's encounters. "Bill didn't do it all. We just used TEAM. That's a word that's thrown out all over the place, but the total personification of team is what we used. We used everybody's ability, and everybody had a role out there that was natural for them. Whoever was guarding the ball had four guys back there helping his ass out. The whole is bigger than the sum of the parts; we wrote that without knowing the phrase. We knew how good we were. And we knew how to use one another because we knew one another. The most important part of it was the understanding that we had of each teammate - what this guy likes and what that guy doesn't like and who can't play defense and who shoots the ball well. We used all that. If a guy couldn't play defense, we were there, picking him up. Let each guy do what he does best."

And finally...how about a Bob Costas interview with both of them sitting side-by-side...pay careul attention from the five minute mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=173M7ApCNKw

Chamberlain...

"now, when I get the ball, instead of having two and three people, and then Russ, all at me at the same time..."


Next time do us all a favor...and some real research before you blatantly spew nonsense.
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