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Old 05-23-2013, 06:22 PM   #16
KyrieTheFuture
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

I'd rather have Noel be a bust than have Kevin Love on the Cavaliers
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

playoffs with kyrie and love ( if both healthy, thats a big IF ) at a low seed and probably get swept by heat, bulls, pacers.. why would they want that

while by taking a young prospect, they could have another 'bad' season where the young players improve and maybe try their luck in the next draft by drafting one of those superstar in the making SFs

this has been love's 4th season right? and still no playoffs...
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
playoffs with kyrie and love ( if both healthy, thats a big IF ) at a low seed and probably get swept by heat, bulls, pacers.. why would they want that

while by taking a young prospect, they could have another 'bad' season where the young players improve and maybe try their luck in the next draft by drafting one of those superstar in the making SFs

this has been love's 4th season right? and still no playoffs...

It all depends on whether or not they are content with another 'bad' season with young players improving and "trying their luck in the next draft" , or if they're serious about being a playoff team.

This is only in response to the Cavs' FO saying they are potentially interested in shopping the pick for proven veteran help. Nothing more than that.

If thats what they want to do with the #1 pick (which they've alluded to being open to) then they're not going to get a more impactful player than Kevin Love, regardless of how you feel about his ability to lead a team (which he won't have to do, its Kyrie's team) or the validity or his statistical accumulation.

You sure can tell rational Cavs fans (RBA) from the others here.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by BankShot
I was really hoping the whole "Love empty stats" argument could be avoided in this thread... now it will inevitably be de-railed because of it.

It really is about tangible substance in a veteran All-Star PF versus the potential of a raw but talented athletic shotblocker or a sweet-shooting athletic SG.

For Cleveland neither rookie would likely be solely enough to push them over the hump into the playoffs, but could be fantastic complimentary pieces or even All-Stars for the future.

Its the known versus the unknown for the Cavs's FO right now.
People have really altered the definition of 'empty stats.' That used to be referred to only in a situation where guys would enter late in games that were blowouts and try to score to boost their own numbers.

When a guy is averaging 26/13 on 45% shooting, those aren't empty stats. Those are... very full stats. There isn't enough garbage time during the course of a season to boost your numbers to that point on empty stats. It's just silly.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by BankShot
It all depends on whether or not they are content with another 'bad' season with young players improving, or if they're serious about being a playoff team.

This is only in response to the Cavs' FO saying they are potentially interested in shopping the pick for proven veteran help. Nothing more than that.

If thats what they want to do with the #1 pick (which they've alluded to being open to) then they're not going to get a more impactful player than Kevin Love, regardless of how you feel about his ability to lead a team (which he won't have to do, its Kyrie's team) or the validity or his statistical accumulation.

You sure can tell rational Cavs fans (RBA) from the others here.

I honestly believe, if the team can remain healthy (big "if"), the Cavs are going to take a jump next year regardless of what they do with their picks/FAs/trades.

As I said, they're going to have Varejao back who was playing at an All-Star level prior to his injury. Tristan Thompson saw huge growth last year and Dion was also vastly improved toward the end of the season. We all know how good Kyrie can be.

Also, before things fell apart at the end of the season with injuries, the Cavs were over .500 in the months following the Speights/Ellington trade due to a much improved bench.

So, I'm not sure they have to necessarily make a drastic move to be in the hunt for the playoffs next season. It will be the third year of this rebuild and I'm expecting to see a natural growth with the talent we've accumulated.

That said, obviously putting Love out there would make it a more dangerous team in the short-term and could conceivably put us in the middle of the playoff pack in the East.


I really do think Love would fit in really well with what we already have offensively. He's the perfect guy to stick next to the combination of slashing/shooting we now have in the backcourt with Kyrie/Dion. And, his ability to step out and knock down jumpers will free up room for those guys to get to the hoop and for our bigs (TT/Varejao) to do their thing around the basket.


The biggest concern would be defensively, though. I believe there will be a natural growth in that area, especially with Mike Brown now running the ship, but our interior defense would still be pretty bad.

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Old 05-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

empty not as 'in scoring in garbage time' empty as in - having 25/15 type of games but your team still losing ( because the man you have to guard has a career night on you, not to mention all the guards having the time of their life under basket ) hey but who cares he gets his 25/15 and is an all star and makes his commercials with Blake.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
empty not as 'in scoring in garbage time' empty as in - having 25/15 type of games but your team still losing ( because the man you have to guard has a career night on you, not to mention all the guards having the time of their life under basket ) hey but who cares he gets his 25/15 and is an all star and makes his commercials with Blake.
I'm telling you what the definition used to be. You're telling me what your definition of empty stats is... And I don't agree.

The reason the Timberwolves haven't won with Love is a combination of injuries, playing in a brutal conference and not having the right pieces around their star player. Love takes some blame for the injury thing and he certainly could improve defensively, but I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to put up 25/15 night-in and night-out on the absolute highest level of competition.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
empty not as 'in scoring in garbage time' empty as in - having 25/15 type of games but your team still losing ( because the man you have to guard has a career night on you, not to mention all the guards having the time of their life under basket ) hey but who cares he gets his 25/15 and is an all star and makes his commercials with Blake.

Like I said.... thread derailed.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

RBA is probably the guy to ask this stuff, but wouldn't part of Cleveland's logic be concern over the fact that they have a ton of picks over the next three years.

Even in this draft, they have two 1s, and two of the the top three second round picks, which are huge value in the current league because of the price drop off after the first round.

How would Cleveland feel about putting a package together for Lamarcus Aldridge? who's the other guy who's name pops up next to Love's all the time, as in Olympics, All Star Games, All NBA Teams, kind of stuff.

Shouldn't OKC be getting killed for the Harden trade after the fact, if right now the Cavs are looking for a buyer on this pick? They could've made one more legit run, and probably gotten this one plus Waiters, and maybe even more, for Harden as the SG next to Irving deal.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Honestly, if you're choosing between a white guy and a black guy, and you're having trouble deciding, I'd just go with the black guy. Call me a racist, but I do think there's a reason why so many players are black.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
RBA is probably the guy to ask this stuff, but wouldn't part of Cleveland's logic be concern over the fact that they have a ton of picks over the next three years.

Even in this draft, they have two 1s, and two of the the top three second round picks, which are huge value in the current league because of the price drop off after the first round.

How would Cleveland feel about putting a package together for Lamarcus Aldridge? who's the other guy who's name pops up next to Love's all the time, as in Olympics, All Star Games, All NBA Teams, kind of stuff.

Shouldn't OKC be getting killed for the Harden trade after the fact, if right now the Cavs are looking for a buyer on this pick? They could've made one more legit run, and probably gotten this one plus Waiters, and maybe even more, for Harden as the SG next to Irving deal.

You bring up some good points and Aldridge is the other guys, along with Love, whose name seems to be popping up around the Cavs.

The Cavs do have a ton of picks, not just in this draft, but down the road. I forget what the exact number is for the next three years, but here is next year's haul...

A protected first round draft pick from Sacramento
*top-12 protected in 2014, top-10 protected in 2015, top-10 protected in 2016 and top-10 protected in the 2017 Draft. If Cleveland has not received a first round pick from Sacramento by 2017, then Sacramento shall convey their own 2017 2nd round draft pick to Cleveland provided it is within the top-55 picks. If it is not, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland shall be extinguished.

A second round draft pick from Orlando

A second round draft pick from Memphis

---

As for Harden, it is an interesting thought... I'm not so sure that Kyrie and Harden would be the ideal backcourt and that they'd give up so much for someone whose best role is so similar to Kyrie.

But, it does seem OKC could've gotten more than they did. That's for damn sure.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
I'm telling you what the definition used to be. You're telling me what your definition of empty stats is... And I don't agree.

The reason the Timberwolves haven't won with Love is a combination of injuries, playing in a brutal conference and not having the right pieces around their star player. Love takes some blame for the injury thing and he certainly could improve defensively, but I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to put up 25/15 night-in and night-out on the absolute highest level of competition.
excuses..excuses... not having the right pieces.. pekovic, rubio, shved, kirilenko, williams, ridnour and rick adelman as a coach - thats not enough to make the playoffs? your cavs team around lebron all those year was any better you think? .. yeah thats what i thought.
when love went down, pekovic had a lot of 25/15 games, so its obviously not hard to have big numbers on a shit team... david lee, blake griffin and many other have proved this... when he makes the playoffs and win some games by putting those stats we will talk.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
excuses..excuses... not having the right pieces.. pekovic, rubio, shved, kirilenko, williams, ridnour and rick adelman as a coach - thats not enough to make the playoffs? your cavs team around lebron all those year was any better you think? .. yeah thats what i thought.
when love went down, pekovic had a lot of 25/15 games, so its obviously not hard to have big numbers on a shit team... david lee, blake griffin and many other have proved this... when he makes the playoffs and win some games by putting those stats we will talk.
Those Cavs teams were always at the top of the NBA in overall defense and rebounding, both offensive and defensive. Yeah, it was much, much better.

Also, Love isn't close to as good as James. Is that a newsflash?

Let's end this, shall we? It's not going to go anywhere.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
I'd rather have Noel be a bust than have Kevin Love on the Cavaliers

this

kevin love is only a negative. its a step back in the cavs direction
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: Trade Idea: Cavaliers and Timberwolves

Once again, this quote sums it up best
Quote:
"@SamAmicoFSO: NBA exec says anyone who thinks Wolves would trade Kevin Love "can't actually follow the NBA," and other teams know not to bother asking."
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