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Old 05-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #76
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by andgar923
Also, which part of MJ being a superior leader did you not understand?

Do you seriously think MJ and Shaq would've had the same issues?

Perhaps to some degree, but the ultimate goal was to WIN and MJ would've stayed the course.
MJ BECAME a great leader.. Through experience and perseverance.
Through failing over and over and developing an unheard of hunger. It would not have been the same if he was handed eve thing from the start

You just admitted that MJ was shy coming into the league dude. You just said he deferred to vets. Now he isn't deferring to peak Shaq? Of course he is.. And shaq would be the man.. And shaq would get the credit at first at least. And that would bother MJ.

It's funny how you said MJ was shy at first but then act like he was at the same time a natural born leader. Nope.. Real leaders are born through experience and that's how MJ did it.

Last edited by tpols : 05-18-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #77
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Jordan's ultimate crave was beating his opponents to the point of humiliation. He would have loved playing with Shaq ; dominating the league and sweeping the post-season.

The Ia 1b stuff wouldn't even matter.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:45 PM   #78
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by Young X
Why do you automatically assume Shaq would be winning FMVPs when MJ was the better/more productive player? Why would MJ have a problem with Shaq if they were WINNING?
Because peak Shaq>young Jordan.. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #79
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by tpols
Because peak Shaq>young Jordan.. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
Late 80's MJ > Shaq. Even if you're right, you really think MJ would let his ego get in the way of winning? You really think MJ would rather lose with Bill Cartwright than win with Shaq?
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:51 PM   #80
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

All NBA analysts: "Nobody knows Kobe/MJ better than Phil." That settles it doesn't it? Phil completely WRECKED Kobe. The quotes never get old either and the fanbois HATE it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:54 PM   #81
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
All NBA analysts: "Nobody knows Kobe/MJ better than Phil." That settles it doesn't it? Phil completely WRECKED Kobe. The quotes never get old either and the fanbois HATE it.
Everyone knows MJ is better than Kobe.. By a good amount.

The thing being talked about here is how MJ would have coexisted with an already established shaq on the Lakers as a rook. Do you have an opinion on that?
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #82
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Everyone knows MJ is better than Kobe.. By a good amount.

The thing being talked about here is how MJ would have coexisted with an already established shaq on the Lakers as a rook. Do you have an opinion on that?

How would Shaq have coexisted with an already established MJ? MJ isn't Kobe. Get that through your heads. As Phil said, their leadership and personalities were completely different.

The two combined would have more than 3 titles..that's for damn sure.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:02 PM   #83
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

The problem in this thread is that people think MJ and Kobe have the same mentality when they don't. Just because Kobe and Shaq collided doesn't automatically mean MJ and Shaq would've. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #84
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
How would Shaq have coexisted with an already established MJ? MJ isn't Kobe. Get that through your heads. As Phil said, their leadership and personalities were completely different.

The two combined would have more than 3 titles..that's for damn sure.
Your boy andgar just said MJ was shy coming into the league.. That he wasn't the vocal leader he became when he first entered the NBA.

Do you not believe losing to the pistons and Celtics over and over with much less help didn't build his hunger, his role, and his leadership abilities?

You think if you just handed him peak Shaq he'd have ever faced that type of adversity and developed his personality and leadership style in the same way?

You think his ultra competitiveness that he developed as a child would never come out and clash with Shaqs similar level of competitiveness and desire to be the best?
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:04 PM   #85
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Shaq was always deferential to MJ. They wouldn't have had the same problems he did with Kobe because MJ was an established vet and a legend already.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:12 PM   #86
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Because peak Shaq>young Jordan.. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
Even if one was to agree, all it would prove is that Shaq carried Bean.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:12 PM   #87
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
The problem in this thread is that people think MJ and Kobe have the same mentality when they don't. Just because Kobe and Shaq collided doesn't automatically mean MJ and Shaq would've. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

Exactly.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:17 PM   #88
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young X
The problem in this thread is that people think MJ and Kobe have the same mentality when they don't. Just because Kobe and Shaq collided doesn't automatically mean MJ and Shaq would've. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

If Kobe and Shaq had trouble because of their "egos" imagine Jordan with Shaq. I actually remember reading before Jordan telling Kobe something like if he was in Kobe's shoes he wouldn't be able to play with Shaq either back in '04.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:19 PM   #89
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
Even if one was to agree, all it would prove is that Shaq carried Bean.
And that's alright..

But don't go on about MJ's leadership in this hypothetical when you know damn well he developed that leadership within his own circumstances during his early tenure on the Bulls.

Would not have been the same if he got it all handed to him from the start like a spoiled kid.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:20 PM   #90
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Your boy andgar just said MJ was shy coming into the league.. That he wasn't the vocal leader he became when he first entered the NBA.

Do you not believe losing to the pistons and Celtics over and over with much less help didn't build his hunger, his role, and his leadership abilities?

You think if you just handed him peak Shaq he'd have ever faced that type of adversity and developed his personality and leadership style in the same way?

You think his ultra competitiveness that he developed as a child would never come out and clash with Shaqs similar level of competitiveness and desire to be the best?
That was in regards to being respectful. He led by example and was considered the leader at UNC.

MJ talked about his frustrations with his teammates as a rookie but didnt out of respect.

He was always a leader one way or another.

Shaq's main issues with Shaq were due to Kobe's selfish egotistical and arrogant personality.
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