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Old 05-20-2013, 12:42 PM   #181
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
- From watching every Jordan VHS/DVD/TV shows etc...etc...

- Both of MJ's parents worked and MJ's dad ( according to MJ) knew how to fix anything mechanical...cars, engines, farm equipment...etc.

- His dad would often make MJ work....and if Jordan would ge tired his dad would make fun of telling him to " go in the kitchen then and work with the women"

- so obviously he had an " work ethic to prove yurself" with his siblings and his father.....he probably felt he had to prove himself constantly...



- Lebrons menatlity most likely came from his peers.....he was always looked at asbieng great....his peers put that pressure on him to be great.

- Luckily he had great people who raised him when his Mom could not....

- who knows wich is better...but both have excelled and become great at what they love to do...


( Not comparing or saying lebron is better......but both have made it is all)

Lebron is clearly better cause he did it all without a father.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #182
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by Doranku
@ the thought that MJ/Shaq would be able to co-exist any better than Kobe/Shaq did.

Its not just any thought. But a thought that is clearly supported by comments from the most qualified person in the world.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:46 PM   #183
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by Doranku
@ the thought that MJ/Shaq would be able to co-exist any better than Kobe/Shaq did.
People are putting 90s champion, overcome everything, killer Mike on LA instead of a rook.. and acting like its crazy to put the situation in context.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #184
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by tpols
People are putting 90s champion, overcome everything, killer Mike on LA instead of a rook.. and acting like its crazy to put the situation in context.

Phil didn't say Jordan could get along with teammates better because of anything that happened in the 90s at older ages. He said he could get along with teammates because of his natural charisma and ability to adapt better to social situations that he developed as a result of going to college. What the **** does that have to do with Jordan being a champion? This has nothing to do with their NBA career paths. Phil didn't mention NBA career paths at all.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #185
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Kobe is shooting himself in the legs with a response like this, it`s that stupid.

#Kobesyndrome

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Old 05-20-2013, 12:52 PM   #186
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
I agree with that..

I said Kobe would win around that.. depending on what you give him.

And I said Jordan would win 4ish titles with Shaq before a split occured, and then he would have over half his career to get more chips.

Youre the one who said 5 minimum and ending at 8-10 championships.. which is just so absurd to think they wouldve stuck around with each other that long when theres so much evidence pointing to it not working out for the long haul.

Not to mention Jordan would've had less MVPs.. just like Shaq. Because they dont reward a guy that plays with another all time great beside him.

What? 5 with Shaq and then at least another 3 given Kobe's circumstances.

That isn't hard at all to follow.

So this is all about me saying 5 and you saying 4? WTF?

I'll say it again. 8 years of prime/peak Shaq with 8 years of MJ...it's just too good to not win 5. Kobe didn't become as good as rookie Jordan until his 5th year in the league. Think about 00 when the Lakers won the title. That Kobe wasn't even as good as rookie MJ....think about that.

I have no clue why you are so up in arms about 8 to 10 titles for MJ switching places with Kobe. You already concede MJ was better...and you are ignoring how much of a non factor Kobe was his first 3 years...and how great MJ was his first 3 years.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:54 PM   #187
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Mike + "Shack" = at least 5 championships.

Deal with it.

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Old 05-20-2013, 12:55 PM   #188
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doranku
@ the thought that MJ/Shaq would be able to co-exist any better than Kobe/Shaq did.

I honestly don't see the relevance. The problem with Shaq and Kobe really wasn't really the problem...if that makes sense.

It was that Kobe wasn't good enough his first 3 years....Kobe then tried to take a larger role in 03 and 04 and honestly just wasn't good enough.

MJ in his 7th year isn't playing the 03 Spurs the way Kobe did...and he sure as hell isn't doing what Kobe did in 04 against the Pistons.

MJ and Shaq might have hated each other even more...but they would have just been too good for the teams from 99 through 04 to beat them.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:56 PM   #189
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by tpols
This point^^^



And this point ^^^ directly contradict each other.

How so? As far as playing style, position, skills and mentality comparing Kobe to Jordan is a fair comparison. Especially since Phil coached both of them. It's not comparing Wilt to Kobe here. As far as actual roles on the teams, accomplishments etc well that's all where perception comes into play. It will always be a comparison coloured by bias, but there are still other comparisons that can be made.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:56 PM   #190
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by guy
Phil didn't say Jordan could get along with teammates better because of anything that happened in the 90s at older ages. He said he could get along with teammates because of his natural charisma and ability to adapt better to social situations that he developed as a result of going to college. What the **** does that have to do with Jordan being a champion? This has nothing to do with their NBA career paths. Phil didn't mention NBA career paths at all.
I dont know how this at all applies to what I said. Its not about 'getting along with teammates'. Its about the maintenance of a relationship with one person of a certain bball caliber the likes of which MJ has never come close to playing or dealing with.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #191
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

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Originally Posted by longtime lurker
How so? As far as playing style, position, skills and mentality comparing Kobe to Jordan is a fair comparison. Especially since Phil coached both of them. It's not comparing Wilt to Kobe here. As far as actual roles on the teams, accomplishments etc well that's all where perception comes into play. It will always be a comparison coloured by bias, but there are still other comparisons that can be made.
Kobe never said their abilities as players were apples to oranges.

He said their situations entering the league were apples to oranges.

I cant believe people dont get this. He literally wrote like 15 words.. and they outlined exactly what he meant.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:01 PM   #192
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Kobes the closest to Jordan as of now. MJ is still GOAT. MJ is still better.

Lebron has the chance to be better than Kobe but i dont see him surpassing MJ.

But Lebron might not continue his dominance after his athleticism goes away or if he plays hurt after an injury.

And, also, don't count Kobe out just yet. He can still come back and make miracles and make his career better.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #193
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
I dont know how this at all applies to what I said. Its not about 'getting along with teammates'. Its about the maintenance of a relationship with one person of a certain bball caliber the likes of which MJ has never come close to playing or dealing with.

Umm maintaining a relationship with a person has a lot to do with being able to get along with people. From everything Phil said, who is the most qualified person on the planet for this topic, there's more support that Jordan would've had a better relationship with Shaq and those Laker teammates in general then Kobe did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Kobe never said their abilities as players were apples to oranges.

He said their situations entering the league were apples to oranges.

I cant believe people dont get this. He literally wrote like 15 words.. and they outlined exactly what he meant.

And their situations have absolutely nothing to do with the comments he was responding too. Like I said, cause he's insecure as shit, he went with the same robotic response that he always uses when this topic comes up.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #194
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
What? 5 with Shaq and then at least another 3 given Kobe's circumstances.

That isn't hard at all to follow.

So this is all about me saying 5 and you saying 4? WTF?

I'll say it again. 8 years of prime/peak Shaq with 8 years of MJ...it's just too good to not win 5. Kobe didn't become as good as rookie Jordan until his 5th year in the league. Think about 00 when the Lakers won the title. That Kobe wasn't even as good as rookie MJ....think about that.

I have no clue why you are so up in arms about 8 to 10 titles for MJ switching places with Kobe. You already concede MJ was better...and you are ignoring how much of a non factor Kobe was his first 3 years...and how great MJ was his first 3 years.

too bad MJ would be considered lesser than he is now if he played with Shaq.
I see 3-4, then the 2 getting into feuds over who is the real alpha like how Kobe and shaq feuded.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #195
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Default Re: #apples2oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
I honestly don't see the relevance. The problem with Shaq and Kobe really wasn't really the problem...if that makes sense.

It was that Kobe wasn't good enough his first 3 years....Kobe then tried to take a larger role in 03 and 04 and honestly just wasn't good enough.

MJ in his 7th year isn't playing the 03 Spurs the way Kobe did...and he sure as hell isn't doing what Kobe did in 04 against the Pistons.

MJ and Shaq might have hated each other even more...but they would have just been too good for the teams from 99 through 04 to beat them.

If we're assuming that Jordan/Shaq would have the same exact path that Kobe/Shaq did, sure they might win from 99-04, but Jordan could very well end up with zero finals MVPs.

99 and 04 would be the only seasons that Jordan would have a shot at finals MVP. Shaq was far too dominant against the Pacers, Sixers, and Nets that they faced/would have faced from '00 to '03.

'04 is a big stretch too, because Shaq dominated the Pistons while they completely shut down every (yes, not just Kobe) perimeter player they faced.

So maybe Jordan gets one finals MVP in '99 against the Knicks. Meanwhile, Kobe would likely have won 3-4 rings in the 90's with Jordan's cast, winning finals MVP each time.

Ultimately, Shaq would have 4-5+ finals MVPs, Jordan 1-2, and Kobe 3-4. Kobe v. Jordan would be a legit argument (with more likely choosing Kobe as being better) and Shaq would be GOAT.

What exactly are we arguing here, again?
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