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Old 04-16-2013, 02:40 PM   #16
CavaliersFTW
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Failing to even reach the pinnacle of sports (or in MJ's case failing to even crack .500 let alone earning a spot in the playoffs) is worse than OP's "never failing once your there!" And I'm not even trying to hate on MJ. But this concept that MJ is flawless because of that is retarded and I've heard it before.

...simply getting there is more than half the battle.

And great teams are what win titles not great players.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
And great teams are what win titles not great players.

Who takes that last shot to win the game? Is it the team or the player? As they say "There is no 'I' in team; but there is in 'WIN'"

Besides, topic is about who the greatest PLAYER is... not greatest team.

Last edited by jzek : 04-16-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Failing to even reach the pinnacle of sports (or in MJ's case failing to even crack .500 let alone earning a spot in the playoffs) is worse than OP's "never failing once your there!" And I'm not even trying to hate on MJ. But this concept that MJ is flawless because of that is retarded and I've heard it before.

...simply getting there is more than half the battle.

And great teams are what win titles not great players.



MJ is a strong GOAT candidate, but he's far from the only one. This prevailing belief that he's in a separate class from his fellow legends overstates his greatness.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Yes. Duncan is only.second to MJ.
Kobe had Shaq. And vice versa. Two top ten.players in the same team.Then he had the most stacked team in the league for his other two rings.
Shaq had Wade whistle for his other ring.
Magic had KAJ. And vice versa. Two top ten players in the same team.
Russell and wilt have no case. They played in a weak ****ing era.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
KAJ
Hakeem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe/LeBron
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
Yes. Duncan is only.second to MJ.
Kobe had Shaq. And vice versa. Two top ten.players in the same team.Then he had the most stacked team in the league for his other two rings.
Shaq had Wade whistle for his other ring.
Magic had KAJ. And vice versa. Two top ten players in the same team.
Russell and wilt have no case. They played in a weak ****ing era.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
KAJ
Hakeem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe/LeBron



You realize Russell retired the season before Kareem entered the league, right?
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
Yes. Duncan is only.second to MJ.
Kobe had Shaq. And vice versa. Two top ten.players in the same team.Then he had the most stacked team in the league for his other two rings.
Shaq had Wade whistle for his other ring.
Magic had KAJ. And vice versa. Two top ten players in the same team.
Russell and wilt have no case. They played in a weak ****ing era.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
KAJ
Hakeem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe/LeBron
Ah so I take it that's your alt in the OP then? Cute. You didn't have anyone who ever agree'd with your opinion in the past so you had to make an alt for it
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Ah so I take it that's your alt in the OP then? Cute. You didn't have anyone who ever agree'd with your opinion in the past so you had to make an alt for it
Been saying that for years. Nobody agrees with me. I really don't care. And no I'm not a person to make an alt account. Everyone knows I'm a Duncan fan. Alt accounts are for LeBron and Kobe nutriders like yourself.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii


You realize Russell retired the season before Kareem entered the league, right?
Yes. But didn't the league have like 12 teams for the majority of his career? Also, a lot of players were part time players. Russell/Wilt/Big O/Baylor type of players were not the norm.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:09 PM   #24
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzek
Simple reason - both never lost in the Finals (the pinnacle of any team sports).

Jordan > Duncan because MJ won the FMVP in each of his title runs whereas Timmy did not win in 2007.

Your favorite player (Kobe, Shaq, LBJ, KAJ, Russell, Wilt, whoever that may be) can't be considered as the GOAT if he has lost in the Finals.


/end of discussion




PS - Havlicek never lost too but he was only FMVP once in 8 titles. Mikan never lost too but he was never FMVP in 5 BAA/NBA titles.

1) Yeah, I guess I'll also take Willis Reed over Wilt Chamberlain, too. After all, he's at 100% in both Finals won and Finals MVP...
2) Mikan was still the best player in all the Finals he's played. With or without official prizes.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

I'm gonna put up a new GOAT requirement: You cannot be considered GOAT basketball player if you quit to play baseball. How about that?
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

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Originally Posted by dunksby
I'm gonna put up a new GOAT requirement: You cannot be considered GOAT basketball player if you quit to play baseball. How about that?


No.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

2013 posters strike again...
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big#50
Yes. Duncan is only.second to MJ.
Kobe had Shaq. And vice versa. Two top ten.players in the same team.Then he had the most stacked team in the league for his other two rings.
Shaq had Wade whistle for his other ring.
Magic had KAJ. And vice versa. Two top ten players in the same team.
Russell and wilt have no case. They played in a weak ****ing era.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
KAJ
Hakeem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe/LeBron

You want to use that primitive and flawed logic?

Cool, then switch Duncan and Hakeem in time. Duncan is drafted in 84 by the Rockets, Hakeem is drafted in 97 by the Spurs.

Duncan would have the same amount of championships as Hakeem (1994, 1995), and it's certainly debatable whether he'd have beaten Shaq and the Magic in 1995. But, ultimately I think he would have. Duncan would have won MVP in 1994 and 1995 likely, so the same amount of MVPs as he does now.

Hakeem would have the same amount of championships as Duncan does (1999 is debatable though - would he be able to play alongside David Robinson effectively?), if not more (imagine 1993-1995 Hakeem playing on the 2006-2008 Spurs. It's possible that the Spurs get to the Finals in 2006 and 2008 in that hypothetical). He'd have MVPs in 2001 (1989 Hakeem), 2002, (1990 Hakeem), 2007 (1994 Hakeem, arguably peak) and probably 2008 (1995 Hakeem - 28, 11, 4, 3, and 2). That's at least 3 rings, 3 FMVPS, 4 MVPS, and a couple of DPOY awards.

Hakeem would be in the discussion for GOAT right now if Duncan and Hakeem switched career paths, while Duncan would boast a less successful career.

So next time you want to use "played in a weak era" as a legit argument, ask yourself if you really think that Hakeem wouldn't have been even more dominant than Duncan if he played from 1997-2011.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Jordan & Duncan should be the only considerations when it comes to who the GOAT is

Duncan's my favorite player who's currently active.

He isn't a GOAT candidate.

He's one of the top 10 GOAT, but he isn't thee GOAT.
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